Scientist find a gene in mtf transsexuals that says we were born this way!

[Rabbiteyes]

Personaly, I think we humans are completely full of shit: we exagerate our independance and capacities to make ourselves believe that we're close to gods. But we're essentially animals, as evolutive sciences have well shown...

That is if you look at everyone as the same. But we are very different in our abilities to control our animal instincts.

For example, on average humans are horribly stupid when it comes to food. Growing obesity sweeping entire countries... or extreme cases of humans who simply are unable to stop eating and balloon up to 500+ pounds.

But, there are also some humans capable of completely mastering their relationship with food. They guide what they eat (despite their animal instincts for fat and sugar) towards healthy and meticulously crafted meal plans to maximize their bodies (body builders).

Or, let's talk about sex. In general humans are again rather basic here. They follow what their crotch tells them...they hook up with multiple people, they engage in risky behaviour, they spend a great deal of time being controlled by their animal instincts to reproduce (and, again, some become such extremes that they spiral out of control). But, again, some of us are able to completely suppress that animal instinct and go without sex completely (it becoming the new norm for them, asexual people).

It is the same with a range of qualities. Is sexual attraction one? Is gender another? For some people, I would imagine so...I would imagine they can chose what to be and who to be with.

So, in general...yea...these animal instincts are hard-wired into us. Victims of the biological programming resulting from countless years of evolution. But....that is generally speaking. It doesn't hold true for everyone (as we see people breaking the molds all the time, in every aspect, despite their gene markers).

[danthepoetman]

That is if you look at everyone as the same. But we are very different in our abilities to control our animal instincts.
For example, on average humans are horribly stupid when it comes to food. Growing obesity sweeping entire countries... or extreme cases of humans who simply are unable to stop eating and balloon up to 500+ pounds.
But, there are also some humans capable of completely mastering their relationship with food. They guide what they eat (despite their animal instincts for fat and sugar) towards healthy and meticulously crafted meal plans to maximize their bodies (body builders).
Or, let's talk about sex. In general humans are again rather basic here. They follow what their crotch tells them...they hook up with multiple people, they engage in risky behaviour, they spend a great deal of time being controlled by their animal instincts to reproduce (and, again, some become such extremes that they spiral out of control). But, again, some of us are able to completely suppress that animal instinct and go without sex completely (it becoming the new norm for them, asexual people).
It is the same with a range of qualities. Is sexual attraction one? Is gender another? For some people, I would imagine so...I would imagine they can chose what to be and who to be with.
So, in general...yea...these animal instincts are hard-wired into us. Victims of the biological programming resulting from countless years of evolution. But....that is generally speaking. It doesn't hold true for everyone (as we see people breaking the molds all the time, in every aspect, despite their gene markers).

Once again, I would agree with you that we indeed have a certain control. We can mannage genetic propensivity to a certain extent. And there is this slight margin we can call culture. But culture is always a way by which "nature" is showing itself. It is its color, its manifestation.
The examples you're giving are good. For food, we suspect today that people who have a tendency toward obesity were probably those who have precisely the best, most specialized genes for people who were living 3, 4, or 7 thousand years ago and more, as they could accumulate more fat and resist better to long periods of scarcity. Today, in our societies of abundance, those who didn't have these genes are strangely favoured... But whose to know precisely what real control is exercised by each over its propensity?

So, generally speaking, it is true that there is differences amongst individual choices and behavior. But when it comes to human as a whole, as you said, there is such strong patterns that they can only be attributed to purely biological behaviors, like for instance the hierarchic nature of societies, territoriality, etc. As to the individuals, you have to take into account their own particular genetic and biological background. What is shown to us here, is an example of a genetic and biological background which creates individuals of a particular nature, transsexuals.

What has always been striking to me, and also to a lot of great thinkers of the philosophical tradition, like David Hume, for instance, who has beautiful pages about this, is how we can be so rational in the conduct of what we want and what we pursue, but so utterly incapable of saying why this precise orientation is more pleasing than another for us. I'd go even further, although I don't want to enter details on this: when you carefully examine one's behavior, or even when you examine your own, you almost always realize that people act spontaneously, and only after, try to rationalize on their motives. Most of it is due to habits provided to you by education, of course, but habit is exactly one of the most important biological determinism for us, as a mechanism that favours survival strategies over dangerous innovations (just check your cat or your dog on a daily basis).
So the fact is, we love to imagine ourselves on top of things, and it's very difficult for us to admit that we're very partially the master of ourselves, especially when we can claim some particular accomplishments. But although there is indeed a certain part of ourselves that is free, the hard core is largely determined...

[trish]

Yes, one can dig to find the roots of culture within nature; but the multitude of different cultures seems to suggest nature cannot determine culture. Macbeth was only ever written once. Human cultures are a group effort; they are woven by humans driven by their natural desires and constrained by their natural capacities. Likewise with individual lives: nature, nurture and individual choice all have irreducibly significant roles to play.

[danthepoetman]

Yes, one can dig to find the roots of culture within nature; but the multitude of different cultures seems to suggest nature cannot determine culture. Macbeth was only ever written once. Human cultures are a group effort; they are woven by humans driven by their natural desires and constrained by their natural capacities. Likewise with individual lives: nature, nurture and individual choice all have irreducibly significant roles to play.

It seems we'll always disagree on this one, or chose to see it from the two opposite ends. LOL!
Culture is only lustre, Trish. All societies are hierarchic constructions, like animal societies, all are dominated by territoriality (even under the form of personal power or influence), all play for positionnig socially is made of ritual confrontations, all are dominated by signs, linguistic or others, that creates a general spirit of solidarity (and in fact all sub-groups within society), relatively coded sexual behaviors are still a huge driving force in our individual and collective lives, and our general life is still dominated by habits that translate, as I was saying, a very important biological and evolutive imperative. And I could go on!
Of course, Trish, there's individual differences, but you have to look at the whole! The whole of it all defines you much, much more, any way you choose to look at it, than your individuality does. Your identification to the group is tremendous, as it is to all of us!
Besides, you have to acknowledge what small place in your life and in every one's life, rationality has. It's minuscule. We constantly act on automatisms.
As to the great productions of art well, yes, of course. Some are able to elevate themselve to great highs in individual efforts, although often, they appeal to the common feelings which are precisely general conducts, group reactions, behavioral patterns. Shakespeare would be a good example of that, with it's meticulous portrait of human conduct and human irrational drive.