Palestine

[Tapatio]

Anyone have thoughts in what's going on in Gaza?

I feel like the world is giving (has been giving) Israel a free pass on this.

I find Israel's policy toward Palestine to be genocidal.

Et vous?

[broncofan]

I don't understand what wouldn't qualify as a free pass. There are protests all over Europe and the Middle East. There are protests in the United States as well. In France protests have gotten so heavy that synagogues are being attacked, not only an inappropriate response but a wholly inhumane one.

Now don't get me wrong, I disagree strongly with Israel's policies in the West Bank and the current Gaza incursion. But let me ask you. Are you aware that over 100,000 people were recently killed in Syria? I think the death toll in Gaza is less than 1% of that...this is not to trivialize that death toll, but why does that immediately raise comparisons among so many with Nazis and talk of genocide?

Isn't it possible to be concerned about the conflict, to condemn Israel, and not to immediately raise the stakes to talk of genocide or some non-existent conspiracy of silence?

[my my my!]

I think he means free pass , as in , other than protests and disapproval by some leaders...

the world is pretty much allowing Israel's operation to go on without any threats of military action/sanctions from a global collective.

to the OP , genocidal? No. more like overreaction and misplaced attacks.

Israel gets away with it, because what is the alternative? Invade them?

Israel, knows they have backing from the USa and most western nations (for you "semantics" people, the classic backers of the Israeli State, not specifically any and every nation in the "west".)

And at this point no one wants to risk going into a major conflict over some "incidents".

such is the nature of trying to avoid "world war 3".

[broncofan]

I tend to agree with you My My My. But keep in mind one could say that Syria had a great deal of diplomatic insulation as well. I don't see it as being unique as the phrase free pass tends to imply...frustrating if the objective is to see the violence end.

[Odelay]

I think the Israelis have pissed away any right to good will or the benefit of the doubt from anyone, anymore. The collective society is acting in bad faith and no one is aggressively acting within the country to stop it. All news articles talk about the political right or center. There is no left to counter the worst ideas and actions. The last nominally leftist leader of Israel was assassinated. By all appearances, there won't be another. The idea of a two state solution was a sham perpetuated by Israel onto the rest of the world. It is now apparent that Israel never seriously considered carving out independent autonomous state(s) for palestinians.

Broncofan, I usually appreciate and often agree with your opinions, but your comparison to the violence in Syria is awful. Syria has been ruled by violent despots for decades, and who don't even pretend to be democratic, much less peaceful. And you watch, you'll have to start moving the goalposts as Israeli inflicted violence starts ramping up in the coming months, years, etc.

EDIT: I just realized how ludicrous the comparison to Syria is. You're basically saying, "Hey look at us, we're better than Assad!"

[broncofan]

Broncofan, I usually appreciate and often agree with your opinions, but your comparison to the violence in Syria is awful. Syria has been ruled by violent despots for decades, and who don't even pretend to be democratic, much less peaceful. And you watch, you'll have to start moving the goalposts as Israeli inflicted violence starts ramping up in the coming months, years, etc.

EDIT: I just realized how ludicrous the comparison to Syria is. You're basically saying, "Hey look at us, we're better than Assad!"

I was only using Syria as an example to rebut the claim that Israel got an unusual amount of diplomatic immunity. You have to look at why I brought Syria up...it wasn't to say Israel's attacks are not heinous, only that the international response to it was not as muted as I thought the original post indicated.

Who's to say I will move the goalposts and find other comparisons. Were we just evaluating Israel's actions, I would have stayed on the topic and discussed the consequences of their incursion into Gaza. But the first post necessarily brought us into the discussion first of the scope of the violence (which required a comparison) and then the magnitude of the international response to it (which also made a comparator relevant).

Had the first post given a list of reasons why he disagreed with Israel's actions I would not have attempted to mitigate. That's not to attack the original poster, but just to say that the way any debate is framed will dictate the direction it takes.

[fred41]

So because Israel has a defense missile set up...they should just sit pat?

[Tapatio]

No judgement (from me) on any response so far-

But I find it interesting that broncofan immediately discounted a "conspiracy of silence. "

There was a large rally in support of Palestine in England that (according to a source who is hypervigilant) BBC News didn't cover. Silence

The US diplomatic response doesn't seem to acknowledge Palestine as legitimate. Silence.

US (and British, Russian, etc.) diplomatic efforts after WWII actually drew the lines that created Israel. Does Palestine not merit something similar?


Slightly related: does anyone know of a genocide in recorded history that predates the massacre of the Philistines at the hands of the Hebrews?

[broncofan]

Slightly related: does anyone know of a genocide in recorded history that predates the massacre of the Philistines at the hands of the Hebrews?

It is a shame that instead of having a sensible discussion about the conflict, we are saddled with such obnoxious pseudo-intellectual drivel.

[Tapatio]

Ha! Did you just try to "other" me?