Six million Jews

[fred41]

It's interesting that even with all the evidence, it's very hard for some people to believe that an enormous amount of people of a particular ethnicity or religious affiliation (whichever way one wants to go on this) were willfully exterminated...
...but those same people have no problem whatsoever in believing in aliens from Venus named Thor, based on a picture of a man with a large jaw.

[fred41]

Dahlia's Quote:
Hmm. I've found it interesting that the first newspaper is dated June 6, 1915.

June is the 6th month
and on the 6th day, and
19......1+5 =. 6.

Hey, i'm just pointing something out that caught my eye.

"Don't the messenger".


Don't be coy...that didn't catch your eye...you wouldn't notice something like that unless it was pointed out to you...and it was, of course.

[trish]

Just because a claim is repeated in the paper doesn’t make it true. It doesn’t make it untrue either. The question of exact numbers aside, there is independent evidence that antisemitism was rampant in the Russia, Europe and elsewhere in 1915, pogroms were launched against a multitude of Jewish ghettos and millions of Jews were expelled from the Russian Empire. To say the pogroms of 1915 and the Medieval Ages are of one piece, perhaps itself verges on conspiracy theory. But to say that Christians of every era have had a tendency to react violently against non-Christian elements within their societies (and that this was especially the case in early 20th century Europe) is not an exaggeration. There’s more to history than what you read in the papers and what you watch on YouTube. For starters try...

http://www.litvaksig.org/index.php/l...spring-of-1915
Don’t stop with the article, check the seventy five references listed at the bottom of the article.

I’m not claiming this thread is racist, but the OP’s embedded YouTube certainly is, bizarre definitions notwithstanding.

[broncofan]

There are a few things worth clearing up before I leave Dahlia to her delusions. Anti-semitism is commonly understood to mean hatred of Jews. This is the accepted definition of anti-semitism in both Oxford dictionary and Merriam Webster. It doesn't matter whether all Jews are semites according to a geneological study or whether all semites are Jews. The failure of either condition would only prove that Jew-Hatred is a more literal word.

When someone claims they cannot be an anti-semite because not all semites are Jews they are effectively admitting they harbor prejudice towards Jews but are quibbling over the proper terminology. Someone might argue that Dahlia is prejudiced against Jewish people and according to the most reputable compilers of English words and their definitions qualifies as an anti-semite.

A couple of things to clear up: I did not report your post. The dangerous thing about a lot of anti-semitic propaganda is that it is very seductive when it's effectively cobbled together. Nobody with a neo-cortex would be convinced by anything you've said, partly because your previous posts have deprived you of any credibility and partly because the evidence you offer in support of your suggestions is so indirect and weak.

So what that you can come up with three sixes? So some date related to the Jewish history equals the mark of satan? If you were a smart Holocaust denier you would put aside anything kooky like this. Rudolf Hess used to tell other Nazis not to read Der Sturmer because it would make them seem ridiculous when they tried to spread anti-semitic lies.

[broncofan]

Another thing to point out is that I don't know of any Holocaust historian who ever said the exact number of Jews killed during the Holocaust was six million. There were a number of studies done in the decades following the Holocaust and the numbers of Jews who perished was estimated to be between 5 and 7 million. For instance, Raul Hilberg I believe estimated that 5.1 million were killed, whereas Yehuda Bauer had a higher number.

It is not Holocaust denial for someone to disagree over exact figures. It is Holocaust denial to deny the substance of what happened; that there was a plan to exterminate Jews that was carried out in both death camps and on the Eastern front by the Einstatzgruppen (note: of course denial can sometimes manifest itself when someone proffers impossibly low casualty figures).

The following are examples of Holocaust denial I've seen:

There are those who claim that there was no final solution; that the extermination of the Jews was never discussed at the Wansee Conference. There are some who claim that the only Jewish people who died during the war died of Typhoid and they were put in de-lousing chambers rather than gas chambers. These same people claim that it was a matter of a few hundred thousand perishing and that the numbers were in the range of ordinary casualty of war figures.

But the number six million is typically the fixation of Holocaust deniers who claim it is an article of faith that nobody can deviate from. Someone can deviate from that figure if they have a more appropriate and scientifically sound methodology for estimating casualty figures.

But it is kind of absurd to try to refute the Holocaust based on the fact that the figure six million was used in a periodical in 1915 (and therefore must have been a lie floating in the collective consciousness of Jewish people for several decades). The figure of six million is only an estimate and to most educated people does not have any special meaning.

[Dahlia Babe Ailhad]

Discuss.

....

[trish]

Discuss.

Done. Read above discussion.

[Dahlia Babe Ailhad]

It's interesting that even with all the evidence, it's very hard for some people to believe that an enormous amount of people of a particular ethnicity or religious affiliation (whichever way one wants to go on this) were willfully exterminated...
...but those same people have no problem whatsoever in believing in aliens from Venus named Thor, based on a picture of a man with a large jaw.

Hey freddy,

You don't mind if i call you freedy, eh?
It's just that, once, i owned a little grey mouse, to whom i gave the name, "Freddy the Freeloader", and you really remind me of him so much.
Only thing is, is that he did cute things, unlike you in this thread and most responses you make to my posts.
He looked, kind of, like this mouse...

...which is why he reminds me of you.

So pathetic i think your are to try to say that i am a Holocaust denier when i said nothing of the sort.
And rude, too.
This is my first unpleasant post to a forum member in a very long time, you schmuck!

Babe,
Smudge! Smudge!

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[broncofan]

Come on Dahlia. You have to be responsible for your own actions. You can't post a newspaper of some slow-witted guy finding the number six million in newspapers without people knowing what you're doing. The suggestion was that the number six million was on the minds of some cabal of Jews so that they could put it to service 30+ years later when analyzing casualty figures from the Holocaust. The reason I suggest a cabal is because I don't think the video is saying that the author of the article later went on to become a Holocaust scholar. So a pack of Jews meeting in back rooms must have been carrying on his work for him.

Fred was just saying that your skepticism over the Holocaust is not matched by skepticism over the existence of extra-terrestrial life.

The other thing I kind of resent is that you keep insinuating that people want to shut your view down. There is no way to change that impression. You claim you have been reported when you haven't been...you claim your views have been distorted....you repeatedly tell us to discuss the topic as though that's not what we're doing. What is it you hoped to accomplish with this thread?

[Odelay]

What always amazes me is how sensitive and thin skinned the deniers and their supporters are. Perhaps we should call them Armchair Historians, and then they won't have such hurt feelings.

The Israel-Palestine issue has such huge ramifications for the entire world. It's sad that a bunch of hobbyists undermine real arguments being made against current Israeli policy.