US Elections 2020

[blackchubby38]

Kayne West is a hip hop artist and a Trump Supporter,Fanboy and Sellout,No i don't he is serious about running for president. He just doing this take votes away from Joe Biden.

Let me ask you a question,

What exactly makes Kayne a sellout?

[MrFanti]

Hard to believe Biden is "the best of the bunch".
Especially since he supported segregation.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/...their-n1021626

Joe Biden didn't just compromise with segregationists. He fought for their cause in schools, experts say.

IMHO, Tulsi Gabbard was the best of the Democrats....

[MrFanti]

Kayne West is a hip hop artist and a Trump Supporter,Fanboy and Sellout,No i don't he is serious about running for president. He just doing this take votes away from Joe Biden.

This guy is spot on in a lot areas...

[Stavros]

The video addresses some issues while ignoring others. The extent to which Black Americans are the authors of their own problems is one that can be debated without a conclusion: if job opportunities are scarce and no capital invested in an individual to start a business, and if the person concerned has no education, the illegal trade in narcotics looks more than attractive, it may be all there is. It becomes a self-perpetuating cycle of poverty=crime=lethal violence, The Wire as documentary rather than fiction. But isn't drug dealing a business too? Just because it is illegal, doesn't mean the traders don't learn how to trade.

Yes, the political parties promise everything to get the vote, they do it for all the 'communities' they appeal to, just as Reagan atracted Blue Collar workers who normally voted Democrat- and presided over the sharpest rise in unemployment since the 1930s, left office with the biggest budget deficit in US History, and was the President when jobs were off-shored to Asia, the very jobs that the Blue Collar voters had when they voted for him, or Clinton, when the process accelerated in the 1990s. The Democrats over time lost the reliablility of the Blue Collar vote, and complacency has maintained their overtures to the Black Vote -but has the protest against it through the 2016 vote improved the lives of either community?

The process was shaped by the ways in which capitalism has changed the way goods are made, and where, and make no mistake, however the President or, in his book, John Bolton claim China has 'ripped off' the US, the deal was that Americans invested in China would also get their cut, to the tune of billions of dollars. One businessman's resentment that he was not allowed in to China ought not to shape US trade policy, as it has to the detriment of Black and Blue Collar workers, but as Americans charge too much for their labour, how else were corporations to make a profit? In nearly four years, how many jobs shipped overseas have been 'repatriated'?

Both parties in the US have been plugged in to the same circuits of capital that worship the financials rather than the people, and it may be in the 21st century the US needs to reform its modes of political representation, but even in 2015 when the video was made, as today, what does this man have to say about voter suppression, when Black Americans are often the target community?

Libertarian politics begs so many questions: government may be the obstacle to progress and individual liberty, but without it, who is going to employ the majority of African Americans who work for the Federal or State Government and their agencies? The public sector has grown because Government has taken on more responsibility for market operations than used to be the case, because markets don't deliver jobs as Libertarians claim, and one wonders what a Libertarian America would have, indeed, could have done to tackle Covid-19 if in the US everyone was 'on their own' to make the best of life on their own wits, skills and ambition with no health care, no Medicare, nothing?
And when he criticises Obama for doing nothing in his first term, what about health care? Plus the fact that when he became President the US was losing 800,000 jobs a month, which he reversed through the rescue of a banking system on the verge of collapse, creating the conditions for economic recovery, even if many of the 'new jobs' created were low-skilled, low-paid, zero-hours contacts etc, but 'a job is a job and better than nothing'- does this not merit some praise, given that Black Americans in 2008 were more likely to lose those jobs, and are mired in debt because of health care costs?

In assigning personal responsibility to collective problems, lies the pivot of controversy. Of course individuals can make their own way, Black or White, but they also rely on the network of support that the capitalist system provides, but do Black entrepreneurs get the same opportunities as the others? And if the political system is there to enable parties to change laws and regulations, have the Democrats been so bad for Black or all Americans with their policies on the environment, on voting rights, on social issues such as abortion and same-sex marriage? It is easy to be cynical about Democrat politicies and policies, but since 2015 the full frontal assault that the new 'Republican' party (if indeed it is Republican) has embarked on, has not only sought to reverse every policy made when Obama was President, it is doing so in large part because Republicans cannot and will not accept a Black Man in the White House.

And if a Libertarian replies, so what? Prove in some way that not having Federal Government and taxes benefits Black Americans the same as every other American, because unless Libertarian politics offers equal opportunities, it will fail, and fail with even worse consequences for the losers when there is no welfare, no safety net. Libertarian politics is a fantasy, the very real issues Black Americans have to deal with, many of which exist in other communities too (why do gangs exist where they exist?) are in some parts their own to deal with, but do not take place isolated from the US economy, at either the Federal or local level, and if Black Mayors rule over problem cities, is that because Democrats are inherently incompetent, that they just use their funds for themselves, or because the financial base of their administation is so weak in a culture where taxation is some sort of sin against human nature, rather than being the tool that invests in services and jobs?

[Stavros]

The YouTube source of the video posted by Mr Fanti links to the one below, referring to Jason Riley and his book, which is quoted at the start saying:

'The sober truth is that the most important civil rights battles were fought and won 4 decades before the Obama Presidency'

-He forgot to add, 'But the war against those rights continued' -hard to believe that someone writing for the Wall St Journal is so ignorant of his own history, but maybe that is how he got his job? I guess he has never heard of the Cato Institute, the American Enterprise Institute, the Koch Bros, and associated people and groups determined to not only not accept the Civil Rights legislation of the 1960s, but as I write have lawsuits and campaigns to carry on reversing them.

[broncofan]

Let me ask you a question,

What exactly makes Kayne a sellout?

If this were a discussion about what makes someone a sellout to Black people I wouldn't offer an opinion out of respect.

I suppose the question I have is whether the idea of someone being considered a "sellout" assumes a particular role in society for members of the group they are presumed to have sold out. In that sense, I kind of have stayed away from similar terms even when they involve my own ethnic/religious group because I think they make assumptions about how Black people/Muslims/Gay men or women should act.

Another perspective would be that any time someone is called a "sellout" one might ask whether their behavior is only objectionable because they are a member of a particular minority group or whether it can be condemned in general terms. I would condemn Kanye's support of Trump in general terms, though I'm fairly extreme, in that I lose respect for people if I find they support Trump.

I think Trump has debased the country and our values and has done a lot to promote racism. It's difficult for me to take someone seriously if they honestly think he's good for this country.

[blackchubby38]

If this were a discussion about what makes someone a sellout to Black people I wouldn't offer an opinion out of respect.

I suppose the question I have is whether the idea of someone being considered a "sellout" assumes a particular role in society for members of the group they are presumed to have sold out. In that sense, I kind of have stayed away from similar terms even when they involve my own ethnic/religious group because I think they make assumptions about how Black people/Muslims/Gay men or women should act.

Another perspective would be that any time someone is called a "sellout" one might ask whether their behavior is only objectionable because they are a member of a particular minority group or whether it can be condemned in general terms. I would condemn Kanye's support of Trump in general terms, though I'm fairly extreme, in that I lose respect for people if I find they support Trump.

I think Trump has debased the country and our values and has done a lot to promote racism. It's difficult for me to take someone seriously if they honestly think he's good for this country.

Its fair to disagree with someone if the politician they support goes against your own political views and you think said politician has been terrible at his job and has done many of things that Trump has done.

Its also fair to call someone a "sellout" if they indeed sold out or compromised on what they believed in for some type of financial gain. Some would say that as progressive and as social justice minded as the NBA is, they "sold out" when it came to criticizing China over their treatment of Hong Kong because of their business relationship with the country.

But what is not fair is to call a member of a particular minority group, gender, ethnicity, sexual orientation, or religion a "sellout" if they decide to have differing set of political views from what is the status quo. Black people are not monolithic. We all don't talk the same, come from same places, and sometimes don't share the same life experiences. So why should we be expected to all vote the same.

In all honesty, I find calling a black person a "sellout" more offensive then using the N word.

[MrFanti]

But what is not fair is to call a member of a particular minority group, gender, ethnicity, sexual orientation, or religion a "sellout" if they decide to have differing set of political views from what is the status quo. Black people are not monolithic. We all don't talk the same, come from same places, and sometimes don't share the same life experiences. So why should we be expected to all vote the same.

In all honesty, I find calling a black person a "sellout" more offensive then using the N word.

WORD!!!

The problem is that the Mainstream Media only portrays the Black Democrats/Left - and the Mainstream Media DO NOT portray Independent and Libertarian Blacks.....(and only give little coverage to the Republican Blacks)
And thus the non-Black general public is getting a skewed and slanted perspective on the Black community

And yes, I am a Black male...

[KnightHawk 2.0]

Let me ask you a question,

What exactly makes Kayne a sellout?

Kayne West's support for Donald Trump, A person who called for the death penalty for the central park five {5 african-american and latino teenagers} who was accused and indicted for assault and rape of a 28 year white female jogger in 1989, and even though charges against them were vacated 13 years later,he still though they were guilty,created the birther movement in 2011 by claiming that Barack Obama wasn't born in the United States,even though he was,In 2017 called african-american athletes sons of bitches because they were kneeling during the national anthem,and protesting police brutality and racial injustice,referring to predominately african countries as shitholes, calling the black lives matter murial in front of his fifth avenue residence a symbol of hate,using tear gas,flashbang grenades,pepper spray and rubber bullets to disperse peaceful protesters so he can take a photo op in front of a church,calling confederate monuments magnificent and stoking fear and division on the daily basis on social media and other despicable acts he has done over the years.

[MrFanti]

Kayne West's support for Donald Trump, A person who called for the death penalty for the central park five {5 african-american and latino teenagers} who was accused and indicted for assault and rape of a 28 year white female jogger in 1989, and even though charges against them were vacated 13 years later,he still though they were guilty,created the birther movement in 2011 by claiming that Barack Obama wasn't born in the United States,even though he was,In 2017 called african-american athletes sons of bitches because they were kneeling during the national anthem,and protesting police brutality and racial injustice,referring to predominately african countries as shitholes, calling the black lives matter murial in front of his fifth avenue residence a symbol of hate,using tear gas,flashbang grenades,pepper spray and rubber bullets to disperse peaceful protesters so he can take a photo op in front of a church,calling confederate monuments magnificent and stoking fear and division on the daily basis on social media and other despicable acts he has done over the years.

Are you prepared to call all these people "sell-outs" as well then?