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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by giovanni_hotel View Post
    If I'm wrong, let me know.

    EVERY Islamist country in the current global environment is at risk of becoming a fundamentalist tyranny.

    You don't think the Muslim religious leaders in Turkey are apoplectic about the existence of what is seen as an abomination in the Islamic faith???

    Every moderate, secular Arab country, ( Iraq, Iran prior to 1979) is potentially at risk from the ascendence of Islamic fundamentalism.

    All it takes is the right amount of social/political/economic upheaval.

    I know the moderates in Turkey outnumber the extremists, yet it's the fundamentalists who seem to cower the majority population in the end.
    Iran and Turkey are not Arab.



  2. #22
    Senior Member Platinum Poster giovanni_hotel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tslvrnyc View Post
    Iran and Turkey are not Arab.
    Argument is still the same. I know Iran is Persian, but they're all still Islamic countries.



  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by daman232323 View Post
    Amsterdamage, not sure if your post is directed at me but, my post wasn't meant to be against Istanbul, Turkey as a whole or any other Muslim nation. Just pointing out the fact that the Korran is NOT tolerant. Just like the Christian bible is not as tolerant and peaceful as some may think. No worries my friend, I hate all religions equally!
    no it was directed to giovanni, not you. i totally agree btw on what u say about religion in general. i can't say i 'hate religion in general' but i do agree that the concept of religion is misused and abused, and is a form of terrorism itself, i.e. keeping people in control by hacing them fear some almighty power. i guess i'm just too down to earth and rational to understand how STUPID people can be to let anything in their lives be controlled or influenced by a thing like religion/superstition (they're same to me). No offense to the religious ppl here.

    @giovanni: You know, i think Turkey is pretty wise not wanting to join the EU. The EU is a scam. I wish Holland would step out of it. We are slowly becoming the USE (United States of Europe) and so far i haven't seen that much good coming from those other United States, so i'm pretty much against centralization of pretty much everything, but especially that of monetary power, which is one of the main reasons for the EU to exist in the first place. History has taught us that the more you centralize money, and therefore power, the more corrupt it gets. Unfortunately in the end all countries will be forced into joining in, and be a part of the new European laws a.k.a. the Lisbon Treaty, which i have actually READ. well not all 8089034 pages of it, but there's some crazy stuff in there..it's the biggest pile of shit ever written.

    anyway, my previous post in reply to ur original post was only meant to reply on your statement of not wanting to go into any brothel in Istanbul because it's an 'islamic country' and therefore 'dangerous'. I can tell you as a DJ i've played in Turkey several times, including Istanbul, so i have witnessed the freedom and tolerance there with my own eyes. Same goes for Morocco btw..

    oh and just for the record, i wouldnt step into a brothel anywhere whatsoever haha, but for other obvious reasons.


    Last edited by Amsterdamage; 09-01-2010 at 08:15 PM.

  4. #24
    Veteran Poster FREEFALLL666's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dkg View Post
    Makes me wonder how many of the worlds transsexual population are escorts or prostitutes. Not saying anything against what these women chose to do (because that's their business).
    Literally...


    You can clutch the past so tightly to your chest that it leaves your arms too full to embrace the present.

  5. #25
    Senior Member Platinum Poster giovanni_hotel's Avatar
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    Didn't say I wouldn't go to a Turkish brothel, just that I'd be a little scared to do so!

    My dick is fearless!lol



  6. #26
    Silver Poster yodajazz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by giovanni_hotel View Post
    When did I say I was intolerant of Muslims??
    I was not saying you are intolerant. But I wanted you to acknowledge that the intolrence against Muslims, which is used to inflame political passions, by the right wing, plays to the advantage of radical Islam. And also goes against our founding principles of freedom of religion.



  7. #27
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    People Turkey is Constitutionally secular. They don't practice Islamic Law at all. Turkey, like every other Turkic country has a old tradition of accepting gender variance as well.

    The problems these women face don't stem from Islam. They are very much the same problems we have in the west, east, north, south. They stem from the importation and spreading of homophobic western European values, in which there are two rigidly defined genders, and no third options.

    I can go on at lenth about transgenderism in Islamic countries that actually do use Sharia. A couple of which are in some respects better to their transwomen than the US. I have before use search.

    I just thought some of you might find a look at that interesting.

    @Amsterdamage
    Thankyou for trying to talk some sense to these people about Turkey. Realize that in the US, and this is a US heavy board, Islamophobia is the acceptable prejudice. People from bible thumpers to gay atheist all agree that they dislike Islam and Muslims. Not everyone here is that way but allot of American are.

    Istanbul is a city of 12 Million + where the headscarf is banned and has been for 50 or 60 years now. I'm sure that it's much like New York, LA, or Chicago in terms of what vices and entertainments are available there.

    It's not a name heard to often here. But Turkey is home to one well known transsexual singer by the name of Bulent Ersoy. She's quite open and well known. If Turkey was this "Islamic" despotic country these people though it was, then shouldn't someone like her have been executed?




  8. #28
    Senior Member Platinum Poster giovanni_hotel's Avatar
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    Istanbul is the exception, not the norm for the entire country of Turkey. My superficial reservations were based on the fact that regardless how their constitution is written, diplomatically, they align and define themselves directly and indirectly by their faith.

    Their 'friendly' diplomatic status with Israel was jeopardized this summer when Israeli commandos attempted to intervene with a supply flotilla to Gaza.

    Why?? Because of Turkey's status as an Islamic country.

    Okay, granted Istanbul isn't going to flip and become a fundamentalist stronghold in 24 hours and maybe(probably) my fears are irrational, but still.

    I'm not Islamophobic, but I am Islamo-cautious!!lol



  9. #29
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    Turkey, the whole country, is not "Islamic" in the sense you are thinking of.

    Turkey is part of NATO.

    Turkey is one step away from EU membership, at this moment the only things they don't have from the EU, are the Euro, and passport free border crossing.

    Turkey is not an Arab nation, and the Arab nations still hate turkey the way we hated the brits after the revolution.

    Just face the fact that you wrong in this instance.



  10. #30
    Veteran Poster FREEFALLL666's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by giovanni_hotel View Post
    Istanbul is the exception, not the norm for the entire country of Turkey. My superficial reservations were based on the fact that regardless how their constitution is written, diplomatically, they align and define themselves directly and indirectly by their faith.

    Their 'friendly' diplomatic status with Israel was jeopardized this summer when Israeli commandos attempted to intervene with a supply flotilla to Gaza.

    Why?? Because of Turkey's status as an Islamic country.

    Okay, granted Istanbul isn't going to flip and become a fundamentalist stronghold in 24 hours and maybe(probably) my fears are irrational, but still.

    I'm not Islamophobic, but I am Islamo-cautious!!lol
    Err they didnt intervene with the supply flotilla because it was from an Islamic country. They intervened because they have banned ALL countries.


    You can clutch the past so tightly to your chest that it leaves your arms too full to embrace the present.

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