So real men don't drink Bud Light?

[Luke Warm]

Kid Rock almost became relevant again though. Good effort, Kid.

How come this backlash isn’t an example of “cancel culture”? ��

[mildcigar_2001]

Three-quarters of Republicans in Congress also voted against the same-sex marriage act last year. If most of the party's supporters are okay with it there must be a strange disconnect going on.

Even if most Republicans are not trans- or homophobic they seem very willing to turn a blind eye and/or excuse those who are. That's why Trump and De Santis think they can appeal to transphobia without it hurting them in the primaries. Would mildcigar or dirkmcgee refuse to vote for a Republican candidate who ran on transphobic themes?

I suppose my definition of transphobic and your definition of transphobic are completely different.

I think everyone should be treated more or less equally under the law.

I am not in favor of grooming, I'm not in favor of minors transitioning, I'm not in favor of people "claiming" to be women being allowed in women's and girl's restrooms (If you can pass and are on hormones it is not as much as a concern, but just because you claim to be a women doesn't make you one).

My primary concern is preservation of the Republic.

The United States has gradually slid into an almost Weimar type existence over the past decade. We have crime running rampant in our major cities, massive inflation, we have the executive branch attempting to ban gasoline powered cars via executive fiat, we have "Liberals" wanting to do apply the First Amendment to only those folks that agree with you and regulate everyone else because your feelings are impacted, etc. I have a whole host of legitimate concerns.

America is some 31 trillion in debt, and is adding 1-2 trillion a year to said national debt.

If and when there is an economic meltdown I have no doubt that the trans community will suffer more than the population as a whole.

To me it would be transphobic if I voted for more craziness.

[filghy2]

My primary concern is preservation of the Republic.

The United States has gradually slid into an almost Weimar type existence over the past decade.

Voting for the folks who tried to overturn the Constitution in order to save the Republic, huh? I take it you know what followed the Weimar Republic.

Your little speech was way off topic, but it's nice to know you can get a person to eventually reveal themselves if you give them enough encouragement.

[Fitzcarraldo]

Slight diversion from the thread -do Americans drink Cider, or Shandy?

It's a big country. There are people here who drink any conceivable alcoholic beverage. The gluten-free crowd can drink cider.

[Fitzcarraldo]

I suppose my definition of transphobic and your definition of transphobic are completely different.

I think everyone should be treated more or less equally under the law.

I am not in favor of grooming, I'm not in favor of minors transitioning, I'm not in favor of people "claiming" to be women being allowed in women's and girl's restrooms (If you can pass and are on hormones it is not as much as a concern, but just because you claim to be a women doesn't make you one).

My primary concern is preservation of the Republic.

The United States has gradually slid into an almost Weimar type existence over the past decade. We have crime running rampant in our major cities, massive inflation, we have the executive branch attempting to ban gasoline powered cars via executive fiat, we have "Liberals" wanting to do apply the First Amendment to only those folks that agree with you and regulate everyone else because your feelings are impacted, etc. I have a whole host of legitimate concerns.

America is some 31 trillion in debt, and is adding 1-2 trillion a year to said national debt.

If and when there is an economic meltdown I have no doubt that the trans community will suffer more than the population as a whole.

To me it would be transphobic if I voted for more craziness.

Please explain how trans people have put us in a position similar to the Weimar Republic (especially in light of you not being in any way transphobic).

[mildcigar_2001]

Please explain how trans people have put us in a position similar to the Weimar Republic (especially in light of you not being in any way transphobic).

Trans people other than at the periphery had little to do with it. Some of the trans extremists just add to the circus-like atmosphere, i.e. Lia Thomas beating a bunch of young women and thinking she has accomplished something. Drag queens putting on sexually suggestive shows in front of kids. Housing biological males in women's prison. A symptom rather than a cause of our decline.

The point I was unartfully trying to express was that the trans community will suffer (as will we all) if we continue are current trajectory (economically, and socially). For example I imagine if we dug into the recent crime statistics, I would be willing to bet the soft on crime policies pushed recently by the Left has hurt the trans community (i.e., they became the victims of crime more often because of the out of control conditions in many of our major cities).

[Stavros]

[QUOTE=mildcigar_2001;2069687]

I think everyone should be treated more or less equally under the law.
-I would prefer you to argue 'everyone is equal under the law' rather than 'more or less', because it appears that Trans Americans are not equal to other Americans, that State legislatures are passing laws that target Trans Americans because they are Trans, laws that are not passed with equal measure against non-Trans Americans. I don't see how such laws can be justified when the law must be equal for all, or the US is not governed by its Constitution.

The United States has gradually slid into an almost Weimar type existence over the past decade. We have crime running rampant in our major cities
-But not if you compare the evidence of the last 20 years with the 1990s when the crack epidemic was laying waste to a generation f youth-
"Property crime — theft, auto theft and burglary — has been falling regularly for the last 20 years. Violent crime — aggravated assault, murder, rape and robbery — increased at least in 2020, but remains lower than it was in the 1990s"
Is crime rising in the U.S.? Here's what data can and can't tell us : NPR

massive inflation,
-Inflation is higher than the long term average @3.28% but is down to 4.28% from 6.04% and 8.45% in 2022 -so not rampant at all.
US Inflation Rate (ycharts.com)

we have "Liberals" wanting to do apply the First Amendment to only those folks that agree with you and regulate everyone else because your feelings are impacted, etc.
-Americans have been arguing over the meaning of the First Amendment for as long as I can recall, and the most open attack on it in recent years has been mounted by Donald J. Trump who doesn't like it when Americans say bad things about him and he wants to stop it. I don't know if any law can regulate feelings, but at the same time, laws on Hate Speech are there to deter people from taking their Hate a stage further than 'speech' to become an 'Act'. And some might argue that the Speech is itself an Act, though I don't know if a court of law would agree. Might depend on the case.

Should citizens have the right to define their identity, be it sexual or 'hyphenated'? I think this is part of the broader debate, and it seems that the very same people who claim to stand up for individual liberty are the same people who want to deny individuals the liberty to define their identity -when they don't like it.

[Fitzcarraldo]

Trans people other than at the periphery had little to do with it. Some of the trans extremists just add to the circus-like atmosphere, i.e. Lia Thomas beating a bunch of young women and thinking she has accomplished something. Drag queens putting on sexually suggestive shows in front of kids. Housing biological males in women's prison. A symptom rather than a cause of our decline.

The point I was unartfully trying to express was that the trans community will suffer (as will we all) if we continue are current trajectory (economically, and socially). For example I imagine if we dug into the recent crime statistics, I would be willing to bet the soft on crime policies pushed recently by the Left has hurt the trans community (i.e., they became the victims of crime more often because of the out of control conditions in many of our major cities).

You are claiming the historical Weimar Republic side while making all the historical Nazi side arguments.

[mildcigar_2001]

The reason you got Naziism was that things got too out of control in the Weimar republic. When they start adding a bunch of zeros to the currency, then authoritarian regimes start to look attractive to your average Joe.

[broncofan]

The reason you got Naziism was that things got too out of control in the Weimar republic. When they start adding a bunch of zeros to the currency, then authoritarian regimes start to look attractive to your average Joe.

It's almost like you're stripping the Nazis of culpability. Perhaps this is what you mean by backlash. I would almost guarantee that any explanation you've ever given for hate crimes starts with the behaviors of the victimized group rather than the haters. There's value in looking at causes but ignoring the most proximate causes to blame the victims is odious.

Edit: I feel like we're a few posts away from "Eichmann was a victim of cancel culture" so I'm gonna do something else. Also, see Stavros' post above about inflation. We're not anywhere near the hyperinflation of the early 1920s and it's frankly a dumb comparison if you look at the purchase power of the dollar v. German Papiermark at the time you would see that.