Elvis vs Jacko

[hippifried]

Music has no color. Nobody's stealing anything from anybody. They're all influencing each other. Natural racial rhythm is a myth. Musicians hear things & put their own spin on it. Good musicians don't care who's playing what. They just want to sit in & play it too.

Back in the '50s & early '60s, black artists weren't allowed on the radio. There were lots of covers by white artists. It wasn't theft. It was the only way to get the music out there. Elvis paid Willa Mae Thornton for 'Hound dog', but his final version didn't resemble her's at all. 'Blue Suede Shoes' was a remake of Carl Perkins' hit. 'In the Ghetto' was written by Mac Davis. Well that was only fitting since Mac Davis' mother wrote 'Heartbreak Hotel'. It's all mixed up. Michael Jackson was all about James Bown. The moves. The vocal stops. Bar accent placement. Was he stealing? No. He was making music.

[giovanni_hotel]

Hippifriend, you're talking about performances by the actual artists; when I say 'steal', I'm specifically referring to the business side of the music industry.

If someone is perceived to be given an unfair opportunity to profit from an artform orginated within another culture/community, to the people or persons from that aggrieved group, it feels like theft.

At the time, in the late 50s and early 60s, many Black artists rightly felt Elvis Presley and his record companies were making coin co-opting Black music.

Thankfully that's not so much the case today.

Ultimately, at some point, Black music is still American music.

[SugaSweet]

Hippifried,actually Mae Axton was Hoyt Axton's mother.Hoyt scored one of those lifetime royalty success songs with Jeremiah Was a Bullfrog(or was it titled Joy to the World) for Three Dog Night.Mae is credited for writing Heartbreak Hotel along with Elvis and a guy named Durden.

[2009AD]

Elvis paid Willa Mae Thornton for 'Hound dog', but his final version didn't resemble her's at all.

He did not. Jerry Leiber and Milke Stoller, two white guys, wrote Hound Dog. Thornton recorded it before Presley, but she had nothing to do with the writing.

[Andrew Johnson]

I say Elvis, but it's all really subjective anyway.

I did find it interesting that some called Elvis out on alledgedly being a racist...but no one called out Jackson on his alledged sexual abuse of children.

I don't really think either accusation has anything to do with being a great entertainer, but...it was interesting to see that alledgedly being a racist was a worse accusation...on this board anyway.

you must not be paying attention. there were about 3 threads where people were teeing of on mike about being a child molester
http://www.hungangels.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=46521
http://www.hungangels.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=46571
http://www.hungangels.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=46507
Don't act New. Around here we are equal opportunity haters

Good! As long as there is hatin' goin on it better be equal opportunity hatin'!!!

I didn't see those other threads, I only scan the first page of topics when I stop by....and even then usually on the top 5 or 6.

[hippifried]

Ok ok... Whip me, beat me, make me write bad checks. Mea culpa & all that shit. I guess I should probably look this shit up before I spout off, but I'm just too damn lazy. Being more succinct & shortening my responses would probably have the same effect. Oh well. If everybody sends me a charity check, I promise to use it for therapy.

The point still stands though. White guys writing hit songs for black artists & vice versa. Record companies are out to sell records. They know the demographics. In the '50s, the AOL-Time-Warners hadn't taken over the industry. Yet. Everything was crossovers. There was no FM. The major markets had a few niche radio stations, & everybody else played whatever they could get their hands on. When I was a kid, you could listen to classics, grand ol' opry, rock n' roll, jazz, & showtunes without ever touching the dial.

Elvis was playing "hillbilly" music to start. So was Carl Perkins, Jerry Lee Lewis, & Chuck Berry. They were all fans of Bill Monroe & Bob Wills. Bill Haley recorded Rock Around the Clock in 1953, but a couple of decades ago, I heard an obscure (scratchy & badly preserved too) recording of Bill Haley & the Saddlemen from 1949. It was a song called Rock this Joint, & was Rock Around the Clock without the clock. These guys were fans of Duke Ellington, Benny Goodman, Count Basie, Louis Armstrong, & Xavier Cugat too. Music is eclectic. Everybody's taking from everybody else. As long as credit's given where due, nobody cares.

[beatmaker]

Elvis clearly was a better musician/singer....hes out sold Jacko....he was the most influencial person in music history...as he was in fashion. He clearly is the KING OF ROCK-N-ROLL...while Jacko is just the King of POP.....sure you can have that...its like saying Elvis' the King of Sports and Jacko is the King of Hockey....its just facts

Yeah sure, it's a fact. How is it a fact? Black man invented ROCK-N-ROLL and BLUES and Elvis stole that shyt and packaged it for White folks. There were Black men like Jackie Wilson that could sing and dance rings around Elvis, but never had a modicum of the success. Elvis was a handsome, charismatic entertainer who clearly got his style and swagger from Black musicians. He's admits this, like many legendary White musicians. Elvis has the inherent advantage being a White guy who could sing and dance like a Black soul/blues artist, but had the looks and charisma to put legions of White women in a trance. This made the White guys want to emulate and be Elvis, as a result. Since, Whites were like 70-75% of the U.S population at the time of Elvis' reign, he had a clear institutionalized advantage. Michael had to cross and destroy racial barriers, that Elvis never had to deal with. Michael had to come out with an album and video on the level of "Thriller" to topple the racial barrier at burgeoning music video empire "MTV". Prior to Michael, only rock groups and white pop singers got play on MTV and BET hadn't been founded yet. Whites always talk about BET being a reverse-racist concept, but they fail to realize MTV showed little love to Black artists in the 80's. Michael Jackson, Lionel Richie, RUN-DMC, Prince and a few other Black artists pushed thru, but most were getting no exposure until BET came along.

I'll think Elvis was half the talent of Michael Jackson. Michael has been a hit maker from childhood until his late 30's, when his career started to decline. Elvis had a smooth, distinct singing voice no doubt, but he never could sing a song with the raw emotion that Michael could, nor was he was the dancer or live entertainer that Michael was, even though Elvis was a great live showman in his own right. Nor did Elvis write songs that truly talked about the human condition. Go to Japan, China, Africa and the major Arab countries and ask everyone from 18-65 who they prefer and MJ would dominate those polls. Elvis could do lots of genres and so could Michael, so they were equal in that respect. If you include his hits while in the Jackson 5, Jacksons and as a solo artist, Elvis really couldn't fuch around. I can name MJ hits for days, whereas Elvis had about 8-10 solid hit records that I can think off. I even asked my father who is in his late 50's and he knew more MJ hits, than Elvis.

Atlantaguy4470, I doubt Elvis's record sales eclipsed Michael at the time of both of their deaths. To compare Elvis, whose been dead over 30 years and made into an American institution to Michael's present sales totals is idiotic. If MJ doesn't catch Elvis, it's only because rampant illegal music downloads and bootleg mixtapes have watered down record sales tremendously. Yet, in spite of this barrier and MJ being a Black man in a country still dominated by a White majority, I think he'll eclipse Elvis within 10 years. If you put Elvis and Michael Jackson on stage in their prime, Elvis would get schooled straight up. He couldn't deal with the power and intensity of Michael's voice and dancing ability at it's apex. Elvis was a bad boy no doubt, but he couldn't fuck around! Like the Republican party, primarily Whites from the Southern states are pulling this Elvis was a greater recording artist than Michael Jackson shyt.

Elvis couldn't hold Michael Jackson's artistic jockstrap when they were little boys and couldn't do it as a grown azz man. In terms of Elvis being a "real man", I'll give you that. Elvis was eccentric, whereas Michael was eccentric and self-hating, which caused him to be even more self destructive than Elvis, who became a fat druggie who was a shadow of his former self before his death. However, Michael was dealing with intense self-hatred of his Black skin and features and sought to change them due to whitewashing, that tends to happen to people of color living in a country in which all the best looking and hottest lists are always dominated by Whites, with some tokens sprinkled in. If Michael could have stopped with the eccentricities he had during "Thriller", he could have been a sex symbol in his own right, but his personal demons had other ideas. I heard Elvis would have a room full of women in his house, lecture out the Bible for hours, then leave them and go to bed, so he wasn't playing with a full deck either.

[Legend]

Elvis clearly was a better musician/singer....hes out sold Jacko....he was the most influencial person in music history...as he was in fashion. He clearly is the KING OF ROCK-N-ROLL...while Jacko is just the King of POP.....sure you can have that...its like saying Elvis' the King of Sports and Jacko is the King of Hockey....its just facts

Yeah sure, it's a fact. How is it a fact? Black man invented ROCK-N-ROLL and BLUES and Elvis stole that shyt and packaged it for White folks. There were Black men like Jackie Wilson that could sing and dance rings around Elvis, but never had a modicum of the success. Elvis was a handsome, charismatic entertainer who clearly got his style and swagger from Black musicians. He's admits this, like many legendary White musicians. Elvis has the inherent advantage being a White guy who could sing and dance like a Black soul/blues artist, but had the looks and charisma to put legions of White women in a trance. This made the White guys want to emulate and be Elvis, as a result. Since, Whites were like 70-75% of the U.S population at the time of Elvis' reign, he had a clear institutionalized advantage. Michael had to cross and destroy racial barriers, that Elvis never had to deal with. Michael had to come out with an album and video on the level of "Thriller" to topple the racial barrier at burgeoning music video empire "MTV". Prior to Michael, only rock groups and white pop singers got play on MTV and BET hadn't been founded yet. Whites always talk about BET being a reverse-racist concept, but they fail to realize MTV showed little love to Black artists in the 80's. Michael Jackson, Lionel Richie, RUN-DMC, Prince and a few other Black artists pushed thru, but most were getting no exposure until BET came along.

I'll think Elvis was half the talent of Michael Jackson. Michael has been a hit maker from childhood until his late 30's, when his career started to decline. Elvis had a smooth, distinct singing voice no doubt, but he never could sing a song with the raw emotion that Michael could, nor was he was the dancer or live entertainer that Michael was, even though Elvis was a great live showman in his own right. Nor did Elvis write songs that truly talked about the human condition. Go to Japan, China, Africa and the major Arab countries and ask everyone from 18-65 who they prefer and MJ would dominate those polls. Elvis could do lots of genres and so could Michael, so they were equal in that respect. If you include his hits while in the Jackson 5, Jacksons and as a solo artist, Elvis really couldn't fuch around. I can name MJ hits for days, whereas Elvis had about 8-10 solid hit records that I can think off. I even asked my father who is in his late 50's and he knew more MJ hits, than Elvis.

Atlantaguy4470, I doubt Elvis's record sales eclipsed Michael at the time of both of their deaths. To compare Elvis, whose been dead over 30 years and made into an American institution to Michael's present sales totals is idiotic. If MJ doesn't catch Elvis, it's only because rampant illegal music downloads and bootleg mixtapes have watered down record sales tremendously. Yet, in spite of this barrier and MJ being a Black man in a country still dominated by a White majority, I think he'll eclipse Elvis within 10 years. If you put Elvis and Michael Jackson on stage in their prime, Elvis would get schooled straight up. He couldn't deal with the power and intensity of Michael's voice and dancing ability at it's apex. Elvis was a bad boy no doubt, but he couldn't fuck around! Like the Republican party, primarily Whites from the Southern states are pulling this Elvis was a greater recording artist than Michael Jackson shyt.

Elvis couldn't hold Michael Jackson's artistic jockstrap when they were little boys and couldn't do it as a grown azz man. In terms of Elvis being a "real man", I'll give you that. Elvis was eccentric, whereas Michael was eccentric and self-hating, which caused him to be even more self destructive than Elvis, who became a fat druggie who was a shadow of his former self before his death. However, Michael was dealing with intense self-hatred of his Black skin and features and sought to change them due to whitewashing, that tends to happen to people of color living in a country in which all the best looking and hottest lists are always dominated by Whites, with some tokens sprinkled in. If Michael could have stopped with the eccentricities he had during "Thriller", he could have been a sex symbol in his own right, but his personal demons had other ideas. I heard Elvis would have a room full of women in his house, lecture out the Bible for hours, then leave them and go to bed, so he wasn't playing with a full deck either.

This troll only comes out when something racial comes up to stir the pot.Take your pathetic jesse jackson/al sharpton wanna ass and crawl back under your rock and fight the non existence power there.

[beatmaker]

ELvis was no racist; in that there is no shred of historical or anecdotal evidence that he believed Black people were inferior to White people based on the color of their skin.


The problem a lot of Black people can't help having with Mr. Presley is that he was annointed the King of Rock and Roll by performing Black music to white kids in the late 1950s and 60s.

Many Black artists from that period didn't have the opportunities to perform their own music to large white audiences, while Elvis and his producers were able to re-package that Black 'juke-house' blues/country sound into an acceptable White All American sex symbol and make millions.

Remember, when Elvis first started out, he caught hell for being too Black in his style and presentation.

When Elvis was in HS, in Memphis, most of his free time was spent socializing with Black performers and musicians.

Sure, he later developed his own style, but to call the man the King of Rock and Roll when he was merely performing music originated and innovated by others is a travesty.

But to call him a racist, from everything I've seen and read of him, is flawed.

He surrounded himself with Black folks, and was very Black friendy in his private and professional life.

How many 'racists' record songs like "In The Ghetto"?

The Black gospel group, the Sweet Inspirations, were Elvis's backup singers in the 1970s.

There is understandable resentment towards Elvis by many Black people, but I wouldn't go so far as to call him racist.

Totally agreed!

~BB~

You might be right, but many Blacks will tell you that admiration of Black culture doesn't negate one's racist pathologies. I attended an elementary school in an Italian neighborhood and they would drive by blasting rap music out of their cars, while yelling "ni@@er" to the Black students standing at the bus stop, so spare me the bulllshyt. The Elvis of Rap Music, Eminem has Black friends and clearly respects Black culture. He even went into a deep depression after his best friend Proof from D-12 (who's Black) was murdered. Yet, a recording of Eminem calling Black women all kinds of racist bullshyt was released by hip-hop magazine "The Source". a few years ago, when he got into a fued with the magazine's owners. Eminem got a court order to minimize how much they could release, but the 15-20 seconds they did release was bad enough. When asked, he claimed his Black girlfriend dumped him and he was angry and young. Well, dude was like 18-19 at the time and calling he was calling her stuff that made Imus look like a saint. So, spare me the "I Black friends" or "I love rap music" excuse. You have racist White men who are attracted and have sex with Black or Latin women all the time. To be fair, I know some Black men who aren't too fond of White people, who have banged they're fair share of White women, so race and racism is way to complex to be oversimplified by posting pictures of Elvis with Black entertainers.

[Silcc69]

“The only thing Negroes can do for me is buy my records and shine my shoes.”