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Thread: Do you believe in a god that is
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07-09-2007 #41
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Originally Posted by SmashysmashY
Originally Posted by TFan
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07-10-2007 #42
Originally Posted by trish
1 out of 1 members liked this post."A true friend stabs you in the front."
-Oscar Wilde
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07-10-2007 #43
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Originally Posted by SmashysmashY
Look, you decided to construct a debate that is ruled by "known precepts" of physics, physical law, empirical evidence, etc.; but also included an omnipotent, omnipresent and prescient being.
Your construct, not mine.
Originally Posted by SmashysmashY
So, since you want me to only discuss the logic of this illogical being within the confines of the rules you want me to stay inside of - please tell me how an omnipotent creator god fits in the this empirical universe.
I will hold all my arguments within the explanation you can give me that allows for a supreme omnipotent being but does not allow for the possibility of aspects of this empirical universe that we, as the top sentient beings who define what can and cannot exist in this universe may not be aware of.
Thanks in advance for what I'm certain is going to be a well constructed understanding of this single exception to the rules of empiricism.
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07-10-2007 #44
We are humans. Take our brain. What percentage do we use at this point in our evolution. Physicis, time and space. Is it all science, relegated to the extent of knowlege that humans have come up with?
But us humans have not traveled beyond our own moon. We sent probes with in our own solar system. But our own solar system is miniscule. And so is our knowledge.
We can think of God as all powerful, all knowing, and omnipotent! But that in itself is limited to our imagination of what is all powerful, all knowing and omnipotent.
insert_namehere, has an open mind and is not limiting himself to the current bundle of knowledge. When we limit our beliefs to what is known, we limit our evolution.
When you quote science, when you quote religion, you are boxing in your brain.
SmashysmashY, you've started something! Don't styfil it. let it take it's course. Maybe we'll advance beyond all the shit going on in the world.
Enough! The drugs are wearing off. Back to looking for pics!
Hey, think about that! All the theories on transexuals and those who like them! Are we ready to deal with such a topic? I don't know but physics and science certainly can't answer it.
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07-10-2007 #45
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Yes! You put this much better than I could. If you are going to define something negatively, using negative terms like “supernatural” or “immaterial”, or concepts like “outside of time” there has to be something left over for the thing to be. Using these terms excludes everything from the universe of discourse so when you speak of these things you speak of nothing.
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07-10-2007 #46
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Re: Do you believe in a god that is
Originally Posted by SmashysmashY
In other words, if you find yourself getting caught up in the kind of conundrums you’re juggling here, then you’re more than likely way off course from arriving at the truth, because you’re asking the wrong questions. Why struggle with questions regarding a mythical entity (God) that doesn’t exist in the first place? Why? Why? Why?
As far as who is responsible for your robot’s aggravated assault with a hammer … that would be the programmer. This is the old “freewill vs. determinism debate”. However, robots don’t have freewill, and probably never will. If I bash someone on the head with a hammer, was that freewill on my part or some predetermined fate? Well … why not both? Is the glass half empty or full? It’s both. What came first the chicken or the egg? Neither … DNA preceded them both.
There is an answer for everything, even to some of the most baffling questions. If a tree falls in the forest, and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound? No. There is no such thing as sound. Sound is the electrical interpretation by the brain of waves striking your ear drum. Outside the brain, sound does not exist.
What is the meaning of life? Complex carbon chemistry.
See? You can look at life in simple terms of sensible questions and reasonable answers based on known facts. Those questions that cannot yet be answered like “Where did the universe come from?”, are still being worked out.
Stay tuned.
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07-10-2007 #47
insert_namehere
I really don’t want to put words in your mouth or thoughts in your head or however you would put it, but it seems to me that what you are saying is that you are being limited needlessly by the constraints of this discussion. But the question that you haven’t answered is what you would replace empiricism with exactly. I could assume what you would replace it with but then I’d be arguing with myself and I wouldn’t need you at all.
You asked if everyone has to make assumptions and I said yes. Everyone has to make assumptions but that doesn’t mean that we can make ones that contradict things we already know.
Now if you want to argue that gods of this sort don’t fit within this framework because it is flawed then you can do that but you’ll need to tell me what you would replace it with. If you are replacing it with intuition then great, you win, end of debate. God exists, and so does the grendel from beowulf, and the smurfs from that french cartoon. I could argue that intuition is not reliable but if you agree with that then I don’t understand how you are being unfairly limited here when you are using the most reliable method for determining the truth value of the claim. I didn’t decide to make the world work the way it does. I just pinched my nose and drank it down like most reasonable people do. If you find that too unpleasant then maybe this discussion isn’t for you. That’s cool; I’m not going to fault you for that.
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07-10-2007 #48
Originally Posted by InHouston
1 out of 1 members liked this post."A true friend stabs you in the front."
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07-10-2007 #49
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Originally Posted by SmashysmashY
Think about it.
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07-10-2007 #50
I don't think God appreciates this line of conversation.
John Ellis Bush in 2012!