We're Not Gay And We're Not Straight

[trish]

I so wish this thread would go away...is there any way to get rid of it?

Just stop rubbing it.

[harry24844722]

In my opinion if you don't fancy or fuck guys then u ain't gay. That's why I like ts not tv as the feminine form should be the focus for me and a stripped down TV looks too much like a dude!

[hippifried]

I'm introverted & bent. Do I qualify?

[Jake4]

I don't care what anyone thinks I am. I love to suck tgirl cock, I love to get fucked by tgirls, and I love to fuck tgirls.

[nysprod]

I wasn't getting enough thumbs down votes, so I thought I'd post something on this thread.

Imagine a man and a woman find that they are attracted to each other. In the course of the developing relationship the woman reveals (as timely as possible, but it is always a difficult moment to face) that she is currently a pre-op transexual). Surprised at first, perhaps feeling betrayed, the man shortly decides that in spite of her physiology, he can accept her for the women she is. The relationship continues. Perhaps they even (after many discussions and adventures together) they decide to get married. Is this man a heterosexual? Of course. Is she? Of course. At least there’s is nothing revealed in the story that would lead one to say otherwise.

Now imagine the same story, except the woman being trans is a deal-braker. Are they both still heterosexuals? Yes, of course. But it’s a sad story. Perhaps he wants to have children by the women he eventually marries. Perhaps he just can’t bear the fact that she’s transgender. That can happen even if she is post-op. Sad. But understandable.

Now imagine the same story, but this time all along the man thought he clocked the woman of his attractions right away as a transsexual. But he’s wrong. When he discovers she’s not, it’s a deal-braker. First of all, this story is just as sad as prior story; and certainly less understandable. Second, let’s once again ask the question, “Is he a heterosexual?” Ans: Maybe, maybe not. If he is, he is a heterosexual with a fetish.

Now there’s nothing wrong with fetishes. They are the spice of life. It is quite all right to occassionally act out fantasies and even objectify your lover, or some aspect of him or her. One key word here is “occassionally.” Some of us girls make or have made a substantive living of having healthy fun with male libidos. I know a lot of heterosexual men who enjoy spending an evening fondling a tgirl’s cock. It’s a fetish that some men enjoy and others find repulsive, like drinking a woman’s piss or licking the soles of her shoes.

But (imo) if you let your fetish take a permanent hold on your psyche, so that its presence or absence becomes a deal-braker obstructing the formation of natural healthy relationships, then needless to say, that kind of fetish is not so healthy. I’m wary of anyone who tells me they date transgender women exclusively and that it’s prejudicial to criticize them because being attracted exclusively to transgender women is like being gay and attracted exclusively to men. I disagree. Homosexuality, like heterosexuality, is a sexual orientation. Attraction exclusively to transgender women is not.

One contrary argument is that gender is a continuum. Not every man is either straight or gay. There are shades of in between and exclusive attraction to transgender women is somewhere in the in between.

There are a lot of things to criticize in this argument. 1) Sexual orientation is not gender identification. 2) Being a transgender person doesn’t entail that you’re somewhere in between male and female on the gender continuum. 3) Exclusive attraction to transsexual women is not a sexual orientation nor a gender identity; if male is attracted to a transsexual woman (for the right reasons), then he is attracted to a woman and is therefore a heteosexual, not something between hetero and homo. I can already hear someone object to the parenthetical proviso “for the right reasons.” That is addressed by 4) transgender is not a sexual orientation. Transgender is something a person sometimes becomes to reconcile a tragic mismatch between their physiologic gender and their percieved gender. It is not a sexual orientation. Now to address the topic of right reasons. The “right reasons” are the reasons that prevail as right in any sort of healthy relationship. Gay men seek gay men. Heterosexual men seek heterosexual women and vice-versa. Not being the appropriate sexual orientation can be a legitimate deal-braker (an appropriate and right reason for ending the romantic part of the relationship). But transgender is not a sexual orientation. So being or not being transgender is not by itself a legitimate deal-braker. Anyone for whom being transgender or not is a deal-braker, is sadly a person in the unhealthy grip of a powerful fetish.

I respect Trish's thoughts on this but I have to wholeheartedly disagree.

To accept it would mean that a man cannot have a preference for transgender woman else he is just living in the grip of a fetish that's consuming him. And it renders transgender women illegitimate as beings worthy of real feelings and love simply because of who they are.

[trish]

...To accept it would mean that a man cannot have a preference for transgender woman else he is just living in the grip of a fetish that's consuming him. And it renders transgender women illegitimate as beings worthy of real feelings and love simply because of who they are.

The first sentence correctly states my view, but only insofar as the “grip” is understood to be no stronger than the “preference.” The way the words are usually used one can have a preference for -say buxom blonds- but not be in the grip of a fetish.

The second sentence is posed as if it followed from the first. Transgender women are worthy of love for all the reasons that any person is worthy of love, the mismatch between their gender identity and their sex as reported on their birth certificate shouldn’t enter into it.

Though we’ve never met, I’m fairly sure you’re a fun and loving man. I find it difficult to believe that you could not love a woman who wasn’t transgender. Preference is one thing... deal-breaker is another.

Certainly you can understand that no woman would want a man who couldn’t love her because she’s transgender. So why would a woman (trans or not) want a man who couldn’t love her if she wasn't transgender?

[nysprod]

Certainly you can understand that no woman would want a man who couldn’t love her because she’s transgender. So why would a woman (trans or not) want a man who couldn’t love her if she wasn't transgender?

Of course a genetic woman would not want a man if he couldn't love her cuz she wasn't transgender.

But that's not your point, which is that a man is not allowed to have a preference specifically for transgender women. What you're saying is:

Hetero male having a preference for genetic women is allowed
Gay man having a preference for gay men is allowed
Man having a preference for transgender women is not allowed because that is simply a fetish.

Your point (which I disagree with) implies that a man cannot, or should not, love a transgender woman because she is transgender...he's only allowed to love her in spite of her being transgender.

[trish]

Of course a genetic woman would not want a man if he couldn't love her cuz she wasn't transgender.

What I said was, "...why would a woman (trans or not) want a man who couldn’t love her if she wasn't transgender?" Notice the parenthetical as well as the counterfactual "if she wasn't".

Hetero male having a preference for genetic women is allowed
Gay man having a preference for gay men is allowed
Man having a preference for transgender women is not allowed because that is simply a fetish.

What I'm saying is there's a distinction between sexual orientation and gender identity.

Your point (which I disagree with) implies that a man cannot, or should not, love a transgender woman because she is transgender...he's only allowed to love her in spite of her being transgender.

If he is inclined toward women, then whether she is trans or not should enter into it (with the provisos about child bearing etc. mentions in the original post back in 2013). If there's any "spite" at all, it would be better for both parties to confront it as soon as possible.

[holzz]

does seeing a man make you hard?

would you enjoy a genetic man:

- sucking your cock
- fucking you
- you fucking him

do these thoughts make you physically cringe?

but does an MTF TS doing these make you hard? make you want her cock in your arse?

if the former do, you're gay, if the latter set do, you're not.

[nysprod]

What I'm saying is there's a distinction between sexual orientation and gender identity.

Fine, but what does that have to do with a guy who prefers transgender women having nothing more than a fetish for them?

If he is inclined toward women, then whether she is trans or not should enter into it.

Obviously that works for you and that's ok...but to just make a blanket statement about what should and should not enter into the equation denies reality and totally negates the possibility of loving someone as they are (transgender) simply because a man has that preference.