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Thread: Do you really care?
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10-01-2014 #21
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10-01-2014 #22
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Re: Do you really care?
Sorry, but that doesn't address the remark you quoted.
"...I no longer believe that people's secrets are defined and communicable, or their feelings full-blown and easy to recognize."_Alice Munro, Chaddeleys and Flemings.
"...the order in creation which you see is that which you have put there, like a string in a maze, so that you shall not lose your way". _Judge Holden, Cormac McCarthy's, BLOOD MERIDIAN.
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10-01-2014 #23
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Re: Do you really care?
Perhaps if all politicians lied all of the time and all evidence of what policies they actually support were completely inaccessible, then how one should vote would be be completely indeterminate. But that is not the case.
No politician or party is ever going to be in perfect alignment with my own beliefs and opinions on matters of domestic and foreign policy. If even there were, no politician or party is going to be able to put enact even a small fraction those policies. Even then, on any single issue there will have to be compromise, trades and deals to get anything done.
If the only thing you do is vote, your involvement in the experiment of self-governance is minimal. Not voting because you can’t know what policies an office seeker might or might not support should they obtain office, is just a silly excuse to abdicate one’s civil responsibility entirely.
I tend to agree. Where it goes too far, is perhaps in California. Their system of allowing citizen petitions to force public votes on popular issues sometimes seems out of hand, resulting chain reactions of votes called to nullify the prior ones. On the local level, these popular elections are too often influenced by outside interests and money.
On the national level, Amendments to the Constitution have to be ratified by the State Legislatures (not the populace). I wonder if NRA might not have passed by now if 1) it was voted on by the public and 2) it wasn’t the first proposed Amendment to have a ratification deadline placed upon it. The only other one with a deadline was the District of Columbia Voting Rights Amendment (the Child Labor Amendment of 1924 is still pending).
1 out of 1 members liked this post.Last edited by trish; 10-01-2014 at 05:38 PM.
"...I no longer believe that people's secrets are defined and communicable, or their feelings full-blown and easy to recognize."_Alice Munro, Chaddeleys and Flemings.
"...the order in creation which you see is that which you have put there, like a string in a maze, so that you shall not lose your way". _Judge Holden, Cormac McCarthy's, BLOOD MERIDIAN.
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10-02-2014 #24
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Re: Do you really care?
I would be cautious in resorting to using a referendum for local issues, and I also think that it becomes even more problematic if you have areas with low voter registration and low turn out, as this must be factored in to any decision of importance, which is what one must think a referendum is for. Is it not also the case that in the USA your constitution already endows citizens with a wide range of rights, and that it is often a failure to enforce such rights locally that undermines the quality of local politics?
I can only discuss the US in a detached manner as I don't live there and state laws vary, but you have the various arguments about law-making in California and whether or not Proposition 13 in the 1970s and others like it that were either a benefit to home owners, or reduced the tax-raising powers of the state, forcing them to raise taxes elsewhere. This year Chesterfield City has considered seceding from St Louis, again for tax reasons, but is it fair for one part of the city to opt out if this lands the remainder with a heavier tax burden, while, 'incidentally' increasing the predominantly black segments of the city? According to the New York Times, the local police in St Louis target black motorists unfairly in order to impose the fines that have become part of the city's revenue-raising strategy, so that crime is not in fact a crime statistic but a tax-statistic!
A referendum might be justified if it concerns the character of the state as a whole -for example, in the UK whether or not we should be a monarchy, a member of the European Union, or independence for the constituent parts such as Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland and indeed, England. Would the USA have to hold a referendum if, to take an hypothetical example, Puerto Rico applied to become the 51st state? I am not sure what the intractable issues are that can only be decided by a referendum, or if the process itself is valid if voter registration and voter turn-out is not considered comprehensive enough for the decision to be valid....and Trish's point about the potential for mischief-making by vested interests is also pertinent.
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10-03-2014 #25
Re: Do you really care?
When I mean locally...I usually mean statewide. During most elections in N.Y.State...there are Ballot Questions (same thing). An 'informed' voter realizes why a particular referendum vote is on a ballot at the time and why...the issue usually only takes minute reading...and of course, there is always a reason for their timing and there is always a vested interest.
...but there is always a vested interest in any election...just as there also is a vested interest as to why a representative of a given people enacts or does anything....both can be (and sometimes are) overturned by the courts.
Yeah...pretty much agree with this.
All opinions on other type of referendum votes aside - those are issues out of the norm of what I believe political representatives were voted into office to handle. The issues at stake affect everyone in such a way that every individual should have an "affecting" vote (and once again - shame on people that are too lazy to make it to the polls for this.)
As for Puerto Rico - the last , non-binding of course, referendum vote amongst Puerto Ricans came in favor of statehood - though there is an argument as to the legitimacy of the numbers due to how the ballot questions were phrased. However I believe statehood can only be granted by Congress...and two things not favoring that: Puerto Rico's terrible economy and their voting demographics.
For the record though - I would love for Puerto Rico to become the 51st State...but that can be a thread of it's own, in the future.
Last edited by fred41; 10-03-2014 at 02:08 AM. Reason: spacing
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10-30-2014 #26
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Re: Do you really care?
Not really FEELING next week's elections, the only exciting thing for me is the possible Legalization of Marijuana in Washington DC, which is right over the bridge for me. The Republican Senatorial Candidate in Virginia is a former Enron Lobbyist.
Maybe I'll start tuning into MSNBC and Fox while the trick-or-treaters have me booked into the La-Z-Boy, .....see what's going on. I predict a landslide of bullshit on Tuesday night.
World Class Asshole
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10-31-2014 #27
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11-04-2014 #28
Re: Do you really care?
Election Day is tomorrow. Remember to vote...or not.
1 out of 1 members liked this post.
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