Shemales are just men... don't take my word for it

[amberskyi]

I don't and haven't disputed this. Infact I made this same point earlier. I'm on your side.

doesnt come across that way when you support a statement saying that tgirls are just men or make arguments about why we cant just be okay with identifying as transsexual...if you really understood than you would know why a large majority of us dont identify as tranny outside the porn world

[KittyPride]

Maybe im greedy...but i want respect as a woman AND respect as a ts
the two dont exclude eachother to me

I agree with what amber said...

Still im not just a woman..i am different and i had to deal with it and so a potentional lover or friend has to deal with it two....

It has become part of me...being a ts....
Im not just a woman anymore

Been through way too much...

[dafame]

doesnt come across that way when you support a statement saying that tgirls are just men or make arguments about why we cant just be okay with identifying as transsexual...if you really understood than you would know why a large majority of us dont identify as tranny outside the porn world

Amberskyi this has been a very good conversation but I can't continue it with a person that misrepresents my statements. All I can do is suggest you go back and read through my posts again because I can't just keep defending positions if their not my positions to defend.

[dafame]

Maybe im greedy...but i want respect as a woman AND respect as a ts
the two dont exclude eachother to me

I agree with what amber said...

Still im not just a woman..i am different and i had to deal with it and so a potentional lover or friend has to deal with it two....

It has become part of me...being a ts....
Im not just a woman anymore

Been through way too much...

Everything you just said there was put beautifully. This has been the exact argument that I've been making. The two are not mutually exclusive but deserve mutual respect and appreciation. It's these two aspects that make up who you are as a person and that reality is something that your partner has no choice but to accept. Perfect.

[amberskyi]

Amberskyi this has been a very good conversation but I can't continue it with a person that misrepresents my statements. All I can do is suggest you go back and read through my posts again because I can't just keep defending positions if their not my positions to defend.

your right i was reading a bit and you seemed to recant some of your statements and you seem to be a decent bloke..my bad lol

[amberskyi]

Maybe im greedy...but i want respect as a woman AND respect as a ts
the two dont exclude eachother to me

I agree with what amber said...

Still im not just a woman..i am different and i had to deal with it and so a potentional lover or friend has to deal with it two....

It has become part of me...being a ts....
Im not just a woman anymore

Been through way too much...

to be honest id much rather be accepted as a woman rather than be accepted as a trans woman.im sorry, i know its weird right? acceptance should just be acceptance but i cant help but not feel that way.
for instance my boyfriends mother completely accepts and welcomes me as a trans woman but if i had my way she wouldnt know i was trans at all.i feel like no matter how cool,open minded and accepting someone is there are always going to be some connotations attached to transsexuals and also at the back of their head will be the thought that i once was a guy.i just rather due with out that.

[KittyPride]

Everything you just said there was put beautifully. This has been the exact argument that I've been making. The two are not mutually exclusive but deserve mutual respect and appreciation. It's these two aspects that make up who you are as a person and that reality is something that your partner has no choice but to accept. Perfect.

Thanks Dafame...

Its so nice to as agree with someone for once yaaah!

Missed that! Lol

[KittyPride]

to be honest id much rather be accepted as a woman rather than be accepted as a trans woman.im sorry, i know its weird right? acceptance should just be acceptance but i cant help but not feel that way.
for instance my boyfriends mother completely accepts and welcomes me as a trans woman but if i had my way she wouldnt know i was trans at all.i feel like no matter how cool,open minded and accepting someone is there are always going to be some connotations attached to transsexuals and also at the back of their head will be the thought that i once was a guy.i just rather due with out that.

Hi Amber...
Thats true i know exactly what you mean...
But is not that wishing you were a normal girl? Perhaps not...but thats what i wish for me....
Only ive come this far, for me personally, there is no going back to being just a girl...
I know im a pure girl on the inside, but being a ts has shaped me, has changed me, and not to sound like i pity myself...put personally...it scarred me...my womanhood...there is no going back to it for me...only at times and i usually cry then...lol...i deal with this by accepting im a ts...and i try to turn the negative in the positive....it has helped me to highlight the positives and being proud of the girl i am who ultimately survived this long for 30 years...i see that as an accomplishment and am proud of that...
To be merely seen as a woman, i feel that does not do me justice entirely...
I dont have to be ashamed of me...
Despite the prejudice....which is nasty...
I trust that the people that love me believe me...and especially woman seem to believe me...
Men often like to think im one of them too when they know...but thats nice if that helps me get positive attention from them
Love men, after all

Xxxx

[iago_delgado]

Thoughtful post, Giovanni. I think the problem arises from a fundamental moral absolutism--that is to say that everything is either 'yes' or 'no', 'black' or 'white' 'male' female' etc. I think this comes from the absolutism implicit in the monotheistic religious culture that even today, for better or worse, informs our society. People are predisposed towards absolutist answers; the trouble is that people are human, and thus a species of living thing, and natural science tells us that within each species there is variation. Everything is a continuum, not an on/off switch. So people's sense of gender identity is really varied, just like their sense of orientation. One of the nice things about this board is you really get to see a lot of examples of that both from the men and the women.

It really can't come as a surprise that someone who does not have a standard alpha-male sense of gender will spend a lot of time wondering what the hell is going on, when they live in a society that preaches an absolutist viewpoint. At the end of the day though, if that person is happier and more fulfilled understanding that whatever she was handed at birth, she's a woman, then that's what she is, just as much as if she decides that she's not a woman or a man but somewhere in between. This is all quite natural, and the reason there is a Kinsey scale for sexuality, and a Benjamin scale for gender identification. (Yes I know about Blanchard/Bailey, but that work has been completely shot to bits in the scientific literature and I won't waste time on it here.)

Did you know, BTW, that the ancient Persians had at least six genders that were accepted within their ideology? And they were not the only culture to be much more relaxed about this sort of thing.

Best post on this topic so far. In a nutshell, religion requires binary on-off male or female. Real life produces many different variations.

Research into the brain has now identified dozens of different situations where your brain goes one way and your body does not match religious tradition. In particular, it is known that this can occur in the first third of pregnancy, so it it perfectly feasible to have a "mis-match" of brain and body 6 months before you are born. Or is it really a mis-match, as that is how life really happens?

Equally, it can happen much later, such as at puberty.

From memory, whilst insisting that you are either just male or female, Jewish religion actually had 6 categories of intersex conditions at least 2,500 years ago.

I wonder if they got some ideas from the Persians?

[MacShreach]

Best post on this topic so far. In a nutshell, religion requires binary on-off male or female. Real life produces many different variations.

Research into the brain has now identified dozens of different situations where your brain goes one way and your body does not match religious tradition. In particular, it is known that this can occur in the first third of pregnancy, so it it perfectly feasible to have a "mis-match" of brain and body 6 months before you are born. Or is it really a mis-match, as that is how life really happens?

Equally, it can happen much later, such as at puberty.

From memory, whilst insisting that you are either just male or female, Jewish religion actually had 6 categories of intersex conditions at least 2,500 years ago.

I wonder if they got some ideas from the Persians?

Hi! Thanks for the support. If you could remember where you found that info about Judaism recognising 6 categories of intersex conditions, I'd be mightily obliged.