Could Texit follow Brexit?

[Stavros]

Some of you may be aware that there is an independence movement in Texas and that the vote by the UK to leave the EU has boosted their campaign, even though in purely legal terms the late Justice Antonin Scala declared-
“The answer is clear,” Scalia wrote. “If there was any constitutional issue resolved by the Civil War, it is that there is no right to secede. (Hence, in the Pledge of Allegiance, ‘one Nation, indivisible.’)”
http://amarillo.com/news/texas-news/2016-06-27

I believe Scalia is wrong, as the Constitution can be changed either by Congress, or through a Constitutional Convention. What Scalia failed to admit is that if enough pressure was placed on Congress the mechanism for a Constitutional amendment giving states the right to secede could surely at the very least be formally debated and voted on.

The key is to put in place what may now be unthinkable but which after all with the UK and the EU was considered undesirable and unlikely to succeed...so imagine you have a President who declares that he would not only not stand in the way of any State that wished to secede, but actively support 'an open debate' on the issue through the first Constitutional Convention since the 1770s -the point is that once the ball is rolling, you may not be able to stop it. David Cameron called the referendum because he believed he would win it, but he lost, and it was lost without a serious debate of the real issues, as most people during the debate did not appear to even know what the EU does, let alone what the UK does in the EU. Would the same level of ignorance apply to Texit?

Consider
-why should Texas pay taxes to maintain roads in California?
-Texas can raise its own militias under the 2nd Amendment and does not need the US military.
-Texas already has the right to subdivide itself into five mini states.
-the state can support itself through oil and low corporate taxes.
-and who goes on holiday to Texas anyway?
-what has Texas given the US apart from 'queers and steers', environmental vandalism, John Wayne, war-crazy Presidents (not to mention Deely Plaza and one Dead President), the Alamo and a tv series called Dallas?

Is it time for a divorce?
http://www.houstonchronicle.com/loca...ce-8323802.php

[trish]

I've got the perfect slogan, though I'm not sure it's for or against TEXIT: FORGET THE ALAMO!

[Jericho]

ALAMONO!
Though I'm not sure who that's in favor off!

[hippifried]

As much as it pains me to say this, Scalia was right. It's settled law, written into the Constitution from the outset. Article I, section 10, backed up by Article VI (2nd paragraph especially).

[Ben in LA]

Consider
-why should Texas pay taxes to maintain roads in California?
-Texas can raise its own militias under the 2nd Amendment and does not need the US military.
-Texas already has the right to subdivide itself into five mini states.
-the state can support itself through oil and low corporate taxes.
-and who goes on holiday to Texas anyway?
-what has Texas given the US apart from 'queers and steers', environmental vandalism, John Wayne, war-crazy Presidents (not to mention Deely Plaza and one Dead President), the Alamo and a tv series called Dallas?

Why should Califormia pay taxes to maintain roads in Texas? Oh yeah...the INTERSTATE.

ANY "Texas militia" would be crushed by the vastly superior United States Military.

Maybe they SHOULD split into five states. I'm sure the folks in Austin, Dallas, Houston, San Antonio, and El Paso would prefer that.

And when that next storm hits Galveston, don't try to come running back to the US for help. Not for natural disasters or anything. Hopefully they think about all of the federal money they'll lose.

Seriously, these cats haven't thought this through thoroughly enough.

[Stavros]

As much as it pains me to say this, Scalia was right. It's settled law, written into the Constitution from the outset. Article I, section 10, backed up by Article VI (2nd paragraph especially).

Scalia was only right in the sense that the jurisprudence of the US as presently constituted confirms his position, but does not in fact make it impossible for a state to secede from the Union legally through either an Amendment to the Constitution or through a Constitutional Convention. It is because Scalia does not believe it would be possible or desirable politically to have either such a amendment or Convention, or because of the legal complexities involved that he stops short of admitting that the unthinkable could in fact happen. But, for the sake of argument, if Texas declared itself independent, the Constitution of the US would no longer apply in Texas, so to insist that it must would be to violate the independence of Texas.

Although a mischievous post, there is a deadly truth in my original post. It must be possible to amend the Constitution on any subject, and might be possible to hold a Constitutional Convention too, these are instruments that do exist. The point is that nobody has ever given secession traction, yet as I suggested, all you need is a maverick politician to start the ball rolling and you might end up with precisely that situation you thought was impossible. Texas, moreover, need not declare independence and invite the military wrath of the other states, it could persuasively argue that it wants the benefits of trade with the rest of the US but does no want to pay for or be encumbered by an irrelevant central or Federal government, in most other respects citizens of the US would be free to come and go in Texas on payment of taxes levied in the state and other such instruments and it could also shelter under a military umbrella in payment of a fee to the US military, just as the UK pays fees to NATO.

Many of the arguments made for Brexit thus apply to Texit, all you need is a crazy politician to become President who believes free markets and local power are more important than global markets and Federal government. If enough people in one place rebel against the centre and succeed in getting the issue on the table for serious debate, all you will then need is a democratic vote and lose a state from the Union, though you will also have gained a friend....

Here is a long but fascinating discussion of secession by a Conservative-
http://www.theamericanconservative.c...cession-legal/

[hippifried]

This isn't Europe. The US is not a confederation of independent, autonomous, sovereign nations. It's not a club or a subscription. States are jurisdictional entities within the nation. Statehood is not a treaty. The same rules apply to all of the states. Texas has no special treatment or privileges.

Okay, so we could just change the Constitution. Good luck to anyone who tries to make the argument that States should be allowed to secede so they can draw foreign aid. That's an old standing joke, used by local comedians as a platform in every gubernatorial election, to see how many write in votes they can get.

Nobody in their right mind wants another constitutional convention. Its scope can't be limited. The first one was called to fix the Articles of Confederation. Articles of what, you ask? Yeah... The original founding document (similar to the EU concept) that got shitcanned & replaced by the Constitution we recognize today.

Really Stavros... Brexit happened. Texit won't. Get over it.

[trish]

In other words: A Brit BREXITS, whereas a Texan just JERKSIT.

[buttslinger]

If the comic book God came down from comic book Heaven and killed all the Republicans, I guarantee you the White Branch of the Democratic Party would end up hating the Blacks and Mexicans as much as the Republicans do. Blood is thicker than water.
When it comes to cold hard cash I'm a Conservative, and when it comes to social issues I'm Liberal. The LAST thing I want is a Republican President in charge again.
It's hard to tell when Stavros is joking, because his posts read like a newspaper article. If every American knew how to read a newspaper, Donald Trump's name would be confined to the real estate section. Where it belongs. Social change happens from the bottom up, which means that the Playground Strongmen rule more than the Teacher's Pets. If your friends and family vote Republican, odds are you will vote Republican too. Facts be damned, Boo.
Blood is thicker than water.

[trish]

Social change starts on Madison Avenue. "I want to teach the world to sing - in perfect harmony..." It's all about expanding your market. Don't know why, but it seems like Trump is out to shrink his share to fit the size of his grubby little hands.