Trannies for Trump

[giovanni_hotel]

And I wish people would stop listing his ability to 'negotiate' as one of Trump's attributes.

This is Trump's own creation myth that has no basis in reality.

A great deal maker doesn't file for bankruptcy SIX TIMES in the state of NY, until he reaches the point that no major bank in the city will do business with him.

Why is it that so many Trump supporters are willing to embrace the con job from Donald Trump??

In real life, most savvy people I know would see Trump coming from a mile away and avoid him at all costs because he's so full of shit.

I understand why a segment of the population would be drawn to the entertainment value of a character like Trump.

But for people who KNOW what Trump is, why the appeal?

Why would you want this guy to serve as your POTUS?? He doesn't understand how the government or Executive branch is supposed to work, doesn't care to learn and thinks he should have unlimited power.

It's the raw arrogance of Trump that disturbs me the most.
He literally believes he's the smartest man in any room and he doesn't give a fuck about procedures or protocols.

That might work when you run a family business, not so much when you're Commander in Chief of the USA.

[goatman]

And I wish people would stop listing his ability to 'negotiate' as one of Trump's attributes.

This is Trump's own creation myth that has no basis in reality.

A great deal maker doesn't file for bankruptcy SIX TIMES in the state of NY, until he reaches the point that no major bank in the city will do business with him.

Why is it that so many Trump supporters are willing to embrace the con job from Donald Trump??

In real life, most savvy people I know would see Trump coming from a mile away and avoid him at all costs because he's so full of shit.

I understand why a segment of the population would be drawn to the entertainment value of a character like Trump.

But for people who KNOW what Trump is, why the appeal?

Why would you want this guy to serve as your POTUS?? He doesn't understand how the government or Executive branch is supposed to work, doesn't care to learn and thinks he should have unlimited power.

It's the raw arrogance of Trump that disturbs me the most.
He literally believes he's the smartest man in any room and he doesn't give a fuck about procedures or protocols.

That might work when you run a family business, not so much when you're Commander in Chief of the USA.

There are people out there who LIKE to be RULED...; it saves them the hassle of actually thinking/acting for themselves(for good or ill.) Then(the truly frightening ones) are those who will give consent to rule the masses to an autocrat...just so long as it profits them & they can be the "nobility" or the "power behind the throne>"

[trish]

David Brooks offers a theory in his most recent piece https://nyti.ms/2Mdynkt

[Nick Danger]

Your post illustrates the problem at the heart of US politics: it is not only not a game of winners and losers, the separation of powers was designed precisely to offer a diverse population a different form of politics. It was designed to create negotiation and compromise on the assumption that the broad spectrum of public opinion would shape policy rather than the interests of one man or one identifiable group -be it business, lawyers, farmers, sport, religion and so on. It can be argued that for most of its existence, the USA has survived because the participants in its democracy agreed to the rules and while they did fight and win their cause on some issues, the system itself, replicated across the States, acts to prevent dictatorship or autocratic rule -or it used to.

What has been revealed through various compromises since the end of the Civil War, is the extent to which Race has shaped American politics, and the extent to which the civil rights laws of the 1960s broke the back of a working consensus in Congress to polarise the parties and introduce conflict at an ideological level that was only sporadic before. Crucial to the Republican crisis -it is now in effect, three parties in one, divided against itself: the GOP, the TEA party faction, and the Lunatics- is a rejection not just of liberal democracy, but of the idea that America is itself a 'melting pot'. As they watch their societies change a rearguard action is being mounted to 'protect and preserve' White, Christian and Male rule over all. All this blather about 'draining the swamp' is code for 'get the Blacks and the liberals out of our government'.

America was not broken, it was growing, but it walked tall with a face of many colours and creeds. The US economy is strong because it is diverse and flexible -yes, more than 7 million manufacturing jobs have been lost to globalization and overseas production since the 1980s, but in the same period the US economy added 33 million jobs. Canada does impose steep tariffs on US imports, the US imposes tariffs on Canadian goods too, but both trade in the US dollar to the benefit of the USA so to argue the US is being stiffed by Canada is saloon bar economics you would expect from a saloon bar lush.

Yet again, consider the simple fact that this is an Administration backed by Repubicans that is taking rights away from Americans, not extending them, from banning Transgendered Americas from serving their country in the military, to the bizarre decision by the Supreme Court to allow Ohio to 'purge' its electoral register of lazy voters, crucially taking away the right to vote from Americans.

The US is not in a trade war, not yet anyway, but this looks to me increasingly like a civil war in which a Republican or Confederate movement is determined to marginalise millions of Americans from the right they have to be equal citizens, as if they were slaves in all but name. Meanwhile, the Chief Executive ransacks the wallets of Americans to make himself and his family as rich as they get off the gravy train that starts and ends in the White House.

This isn't baseball, it is organized crime.

You are my favorite idealist, Stavros. The fact that you don't see yourself that way is interesting.

Government has been "organized crime" throughout history. The essential deal between government and citizens has always been:

1. Government provides economic opportunity and protection.

2. Citizens pay a percentage of their earnings to the government.

Additional parallels between government and organized crime:

If you refuse to follow orders from the Mafia, they will shoot you. If you refuse to follow orders from the government, they will shoot you.

The Mafia tells its soldiers which drugs are legal and which are illegal. The government tells its citizens which drugs are legal and which are illegal.

The Mafia decides when to go to war, and against whom. The decision makers don't do the fighting. The government decides when to go to war, and against whom. The decision makers don't do the fighting.

Mafia power struggles usually come down to two contenders. The contender with the most support gets the top job. Government power struggles usually come down to two contenders. The contender with the most support gets the top job.

The head of the Mafia is called a don. The head of the government is also called Don.

I could go on but I'm sure you see my point. The only difference in government and organized crime is this: Government demands, and receives, legitimacy from its citizens. The Mafia demands only that you do what they say or get the hell out of their way. Still, defiance of either one concludes at the business end of a gun barrel.

I mentioned before, Stavros, that I find you very intelligent and knowledgeable. But I think that sometimes your idealism allows you to buy into a world-view that's just an illusion. We're all just players in someone else's game, grasping desperately for our little piece of happiness while the whole shithouse burns down around us. There's no security. You don't have a clue what your dollar will be worth 10 years from now, or your home, or your investments. We're exhausting the planet. We're overpopulating. We're killing each other and ourselves. It's a catastrophic progression to self-annihilation.

People live in a constant fog of disinformation and fear. You talk about polarization of our political parties, but have you ever considered the possibility that is completely intentional? "Divide and conquer?" Consider this: I believe that most Americans - probably a VAST majority of Americans - would prefer a government that is fiscally conservative, but morally liberal. Let everyone do what they want as long as they're not hurting anyone else, but take care of the people's business conservatively and let everyone pull his own weight to the extent possible.

And you'd think, knowing what Americans want, that one of the two major political parties would adopt that platform. Doesn't happen. Ever. You vote Republican, you're voting for conservative fiscal and moral policy. You vote Democrat, you're voting for liberal fiscal and moral policy. Because the goal of government is not to ever give the people what they actually want, the goal of government is to keep the people distracted with trivialities while those in power enrich themselves to the point of becoming too big to fail. To a great extent this has already happened in the USA.

So now what? Now, we - the proletariat - just do the best we can. I happen to believe Donald Trump is the best we can do right now. He understands that certain segments of the population have been pushed too far down by the elitist power grab of the modern era. He's appealed to those segments - primarily the white lower and middle classes - and if he wants a shining legacy, he's going to have to produce something for them. He does want a shining legacy, he is capable of producing results, and he will produce something.

To the extent greatness is still possible in this hot mess of a world, Trump has the potential for it. Not because he's a great person, but because he's obligated himself to do great things, and his ego won't accept failure.

Of course he's going to get rich(er) from being President. Open corruption is the flavor now. I challenge you to name a President who never used the office to his personal advantage, even if it was only to help his friends succeed, i.e., make money. You can't, because that's just not how it works. People like you and me, we're not playing by the same rules as our elite overlords. We're not even playing the same game.

The best we can do is make sure that ourselves and our loved ones, at least, get our piece of the pie, and try to get some happiness out of it during our lifetime.

[Nick Danger]

Ty Cobb was never considered a cheater, or someone who utilized and unfair advantage to rig the game's final results. He didn't gamble against his own team, or throw games to profit his benefactors.
Cobb played by the rules. He didn't invent his own because he felt he could get away with it.

No offense, but this is a stupid analogy.

No offense, Giovanni, but you don't know jack-shit about Ty Cobb.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1...eonard-ty-cobb

And I wish people would stop listing his ability to 'negotiate' as one of Trump's attributes.

This is Trump's own creation myth that has no basis in reality.

A great deal maker doesn't file for bankruptcy SIX TIMES in the state of NY, until he reaches the point that no major bank in the city will do business with him.

I'd like to hear some attribution of this statement, Giovanni. I believe you'd have to be a great negotiator to make billions in real estate and development - a low-down, underhanded, lying, cheating negotiator who always comes out on top somehow. And bankruptcy is nothing more than just another business strategy in the current era. So instead of simply stating a non-fact, let's hear an actual argument for "Trump is not a great negotiator."

It's the raw arrogance of Trump that disturbs me the most.

OIC. His arrogance disturbs you. Well that's certainly a good reason to vote against him, so you should continue to do so.

But your complaints sound like those of a child, Giovanni, and I say that with all due respect, not to your ideas, but to your person. I think you're one of these "visceral" voters who will never give President Trump a chance even if he brings world peace and turns every American into a millionaire. He won't do that, but my point is, you've already made your decision, and your mind is now closed on the matter. You aren't willing to accept that what he just did in China and North Korea is pretty fucking amazing, even if he only did it so he could build condos there. You aren't willing to accept that enforcing already-existent immigration policy is a good idea for Americans, and only a bad idea for people who want to come here illegally and feed off our prosperity without contributing anything. You aren't willing to give credit for Trump's personal negotiations with mega-corporations resulting in more jobs in the USA and fewer overseas. You will never see the truth, because you decided what the truth was before you even finished the book.

I think you're only interested in running the man down because he rubs you the wrong way. That's not much of a political argument.

[filghy2]

I could go on but I'm sure you see my point. The only difference in government and organized crime is this: Government demands, and receives, legitimacy from its citizens. The Mafia demands only that you do what they say or get the hell out of their way. Still, defiance of either one concludes at the business end of a gun barrel.

He understands that certain segments of the population have been pushed too far down by the elitist power grab of the modern era. He's appealed to those segments - primarily the white lower and middle classes - and if he wants a shining legacy, he's going to have to produce something for them. He does want a shining legacy, he is capable of producing results, and he will produce something.

The essential difference between constitutional government and the mafia is that government's powers are supposed to be used in accordance with the laws passed by the people's representatives rather than the whim of the leader. That has been the whole point of constitutional development since the Magna Carta. Trump clearly doesn't accept this, which makes him closer to a mafia don.

More examples of cognitive dissonance. You know that in business Trump was a con man who reneged on promises because he knew he could generally get away with it. Yet when it comes to politics he is somehow magically transformed into a man who will keep his promises. You tell us that he is fighting for the lower and middle classes against an 'elitist power grab' while ignoring the fact that most of his policies do the exact opposite. How are Trump and his cronies not elitists grabbing power?

I think Trump has basically two skills which have been effective for getting into power but have nothing to do with governing well. First, he understands that a lot of people can be conned for a long time if you are unscrupulous enough about lying and appealing to their prejudices. As long as your continually pick fights with various scapegoats they don't like, many people will not notice that you are really picking their pockets, particularly if they are being fed a steady diet of propaganda from Fox News etc.

Second, he understands that the rules of the game actually rely on a fair degree of voluntary compliance. He saw that if you are brazen enough you can get away with ignoring the rules in ways that were previously assumed to be impossible. I think that lesson might be the true legacy of Trump.

[goatman]

This.

[goatman]

the essential difference between constitutional government and the mafia is that government's powers are supposed to be used in accordance with the laws passed by the people's representatives rather than the whim of the leader. That has been the whole point of constitutional development since the magna carta. Trump clearly doesn't accept this, which makes him closer to a mafia don.

More examples of cognitive dissonance. You know that in business trump was a con man who reneged on promises because he knew he could generally get away with it. Yet when it comes to politics he is somehow magically transformed into a man who will keep his promises. You tell us that he is fighting for the lower and middle classes against an 'elitist power grab' while ignoring the fact that most of his policies do the exact opposite. How are trump and his cronies not elitists grabbing power?

I think trump has basically two skills which have been effective for getting into power but have nothing to do with governing well. First, he understands that a lot of people can be conned for a long time if you are unscrupulous enough about lying and appealing to their prejudices. As long as your continually pick fights with various scapegoats they don't like, many people will not notice that you are really picking their pockets, particularly if they are being fed a steady diet of propaganda from fox news etc.

Second, he understands that the rules of the game actually rely on a fair degree of voluntary compliance. He saw that if you are brazen enough you can get away with ignoring the rules in ways that were previously assumed to be impossible. I think that lesson might be the true legacy of trump.

this.

[goatman]

No offense, Giovanni, but you don't know jack-shit about Ty Cobb.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1...eonard-ty-cobb



I'd like to hear some attribution of this statement, Giovanni. I believe you'd have to be a great negotiator to make billions in real estate and development - a low-down, underhanded, lying, cheating negotiator who always comes out on top somehow. And bankruptcy is nothing more than just another business strategy in the current era. So instead of simply stating a non-fact, let's hear an actual argument for "Trump is not a great negotiator."



OIC. His arrogance disturbs you. Well that's certainly a good reason to vote against him, so you should continue to do so.

But your complaints sound like those of a child, Giovanni, and I say that with all due respect, not to your ideas, but to your person. I think you're one of these "visceral" voters who will never give President Trump a chance even if he brings world peace and turns every American into a millionaire. He won't do that, but my point is, you've already made your decision, and your mind is now closed on the matter. You aren't willing to accept that what he just did in China and North Korea is pretty fucking amazing, even if he only did it so he could build condos there. You aren't willing to accept that enforcing already-existent immigration policy is a good idea for Americans, and only a bad idea for people who want to come here illegally and feed off our prosperity without contributing anything. You aren't willing to give credit for Trump's personal negotiations with mega-corporations resulting in more jobs in the USA and fewer overseas. You will never see the truth, because you decided what the truth was before you even finished the book.

I think you're only interested in running the man down because he rubs you the wrong way. That's not much of a political argument.

Walter Johnson could (And DID) eat Ty Cobb's lunch in front of him...(#whythereARENTanyHighSchoolsnamedafterTyCob btomyknowledge)

[Nick Danger]

The essential difference between constitutional government and the mafia is that government's powers are supposed to be used in accordance with the laws passed by the people's representatives rather than the whim of the leader. That has been the whole point of constitutional development since the Magna Carta. Trump clearly doesn't accept this, which makes him closer to a mafia don.

More examples of cognitive dissonance. You know that in business Trump was a con man who reneged on promises because he knew he could generally get away with it. Yet when it comes to politics he is somehow magically transformed into a man who will keep his promises. You tell us that he is fighting for the lower and middle classes against an 'elitist power grab' while ignoring the fact that most of his policies do the exact opposite. How are Trump and his cronies not elitists grabbing power?

I think Trump has basically two skills which have been effective for getting into power but have nothing to do with governing well. First, he understands that a lot of people can be conned for a long time if you are unscrupulous enough about lying and appealing to their prejudices. As long as your continually pick fights with various scapegoats they don't like, many people will not notice that you are really picking their pockets, particularly if they are being fed a steady diet of propaganda from Fox News etc.

Second, he understands that the rules of the game actually rely on a fair degree of voluntary compliance. He saw that if you are brazen enough you can get away with ignoring the rules in ways that were previously assumed to be impossible. I think that lesson might be the true legacy of Trump.

IIRC "cognitive dissonance" means holding two conflicting ideas as true simultaneously, yes?

I see your point but I don't think you see mine. Do you follow baseball, Flighty? I do. And I'm a Yankees fan, which makes me a giant asshole anywhere but New York - but I came by it honestly, my great-grandfather was a Yankees fan, my grandfather was a Yankees fan, and when I was growing up, you were simply a Yankees fan in my household or most likely food and parental comfort would have been withheld.

There's something I've learned watching the Yankees my whole life, and that is this: A person of some ability, when elevated to a grand stage, is capable of improving greatly. I've watched the Yankees bring people on-board and I'm thinking, "Why him?" Then suddenly his batting average goes through the roof, or he starts hitting twice as many home runs, or his ERA drops a full point, or his RBI's go from "retarded" to "average intelligence" when compared against the IQ scale.

Why does that happen? Because there is no higher calling in baseball than playing for the New York Yankees, simple as that. That new guy on the roster knows that this is the apex of his existence on this planet. He digs deep, finds his center of maximum effort, starts doing all the right things, and suddenly a very average ballplayer becomes a superstar. It's happened more times than I can remember, and I asked if you follow baseball because if you do, then you understand the truth of what I'm telling you.

I don't see Trump's situation being much different from that. He's spent a lifetime polishing his skills, his persona, his sales pitch. He's acquired great wealth and great experience. And now he's been called up to the big show.

All the evidence so far indicates he's reacting to the pressure by performing beyond all expectations, and you, Flighty, can continue to ignore the fact that he's doing a great job - that's what I call "cognitive dissonance" - but so far he's kept or is trying to keep every promise he made during his campaign.

Far as the wretched masses of which you and I are members, we elected him, and now he owes us. Make no mistake, Trump wants to be remembered as a GREAT President, he is purely ego-driven, and at this point in life, that means legacy-driven. To be remembered as great, he's going to have to improve the lifestyles of the poor and un-notable who elected him. He is most certainly working on just that.

The American people have never been in a better position than having a President who cares about one thing above all else - what people think of him.