Shall we stay or shall we go???????

[Stavros]

I forgot to mention something crucial in the post I made a few days ago.
The EU referendum is not legally binding on the UK government, so that in theory if the result is Leave, the Prime Minister could ignore it. If, however, Cameron decides he must act, then a Bill must be presented to Parliament giving the Government the authority to open negotiations with the EU citing Article 50 of the Treaty on European Union, but if Parliament does not approve, then the Government cannot open such negotiations, and the UK will remain in the EU.

What will those who want to Leave the EU do if the House of Commons says No?

[Gillian]

Stavros: May I ask which part of the UK you're in?

I ask because the Scots, it seems, have a very different perspective on this issue from the English ...

[Stavros]

Stavros: May I ask which part of the UK you're in?

I ask because the Scots, it seems, have a very different perspective on this issue from the English ...

Where I live has no bearing on the vote or indeed, on my views.

[Gillian]

Where I live has no bearing on the vote or indeed, on my views.

Sorry to have bothered you.

In the absence of any information, I'll imagine it's a seedy bedsit in Deptford ...

[Stavros]

Sorry to have bothered you.

In the absence of any information, I'll imagine it's a seedy bedsit in Deptford ...

Having already said in another post somewhere I do not live in London I shall not say any more, because it is the issues that are important, not me or where I live.
I do wonder what it is that people think the Exit campaign actually want from the exit from the EU, because it is not all the same for a diverse bunch of people. Some are, quite simply, White English Nazis who see an exit from the EU as the first phase of 'taking our country back' or to paraphrase Donald Trump 'Make England White Again' not least because they couldn't care two hoots about the rest of the UK. For people like Michael Gove, an exit from the UK is a free market wet dream in which the UK leads the avant garde against trading blocs and globalisation in its present form to create a world in which private companies or free enterprise dominate the world economy even though as I write most of the world's resources and most of the world's capital is owned by states not companies, and by states that are not and if necessary will fight to the death not to become democracies. Given that even on the best Exit scenario real wealth will not change, who actually would benefit from the exit? The same 4% who own the land now will own the land if we leave; the same 100 companies that make up the Stock Exchange Index will dominate that list and the same private companies not listed will continue to be the richest companies. The majority of people will see no significant improvement in their wages or working conditions, or potentially could see them worsen as the Exit campaign is opposed to all that 'red tape' that in effect protects workers rights. They want an end to all forms of trade union representation, to repeal the Human Rights Act, and don't care if the pound loses its value because that will boost exports and anyway most of them have assets tucked away in offshore accounts precisely as a hedge against economic failure in their own country.
But as I said earlier today, if the House of Commons votes against an exit from the EU it is not going to happen.

[flabbybody]

I forgot to mention something crucial in the post I made a few days ago.
The EU referendum is not legally binding on the UK government, so that in theory if the result is Leave, the Prime Minister could ignore it. If, however, Cameron decides he must act, then a Bill must be presented to Parliament giving the Government the authority to open negotiations with the EU citing Article 50 of the Treaty on European Union, but if Parliament does not approve, then the Government cannot open such negotiations, and the UK will remain in the EU.

What will those who want to Leave the EU do if the House of Commons says No?

If Leave wins and the government chooses to legally ignore the outcome it will embolden the right-wing anti-immigrant lunatics. They'll succeed in enlisting many new supporters from the more sane elements of the population, the so-called "silent majority"....Richard Nixon's term that means most people tacitly support the government as long it acts rationally.

In a nutshell, if Leave wins and HC says No, then the U.K. is fucked.

Begs the question... Then what was the point of a conducting a referendum?

[Jericho]

Begs the question... Then what was the point of a conducting a referendum?

To give the proletariat the illusion of choice.
Meanwhile, the Illuminati profit either/both ways.

or sumfink!

[Stavros]

If Leave wins and the government chooses to legally ignore the outcome it will embolden the right-wing anti-immigrant lunatics. They'll succeed in enlisting many new supporters from the more sane elements of the population, the so-called "silent majority"....Richard Nixon's term that means most people tacitly support the government as long it acts rationally.

In a nutshell, if Leave wins and HC says No, then the U.K. is fucked.

Begs the question... Then what was the point of a conducting a referendum?

The simple reality is that our laws are made by Parliament, and nothing can happen if Parliament does not give its approval. A retired Professor of British political history has told me this campaign is Gilbert & Sullivan nonsense. If Leave win and the House votes against, it is up to those who want to leave to win the next General Election and put a new Bill before Parliament. We only give the people so much power in this country.

The UK applied to join the Common Market in the 1960s but the French vetoed the application. When Edward Heath led the Conservative Party to election victory in 1970, the party manifesto declared
If we can negotiate the right terms, we believe that it would be in the long-term interest of the British people for Britain to join the European Economic Community...Our sole commitment is to negotiate; no more, no less.
http://www.conservativemanifesto.com...anifesto.shtml

Because Heath believed the negotiations had reached a point where entry was justified, a Bill was presented to Parliament, the House of Commons debated it for over a week in 1971, and in 1972 the European Communities Act was passed. Since then Heath has been accused of being a liar, a traitor, and much worse, and I don't recall the issue of Europe being of major importance in the debates at the time, but the commitment was there.

In purely procedural, but legal terms, there is no need to hold a referendum on Europe, as the decision can only be made by Parliament and had he wanted to Cameron could have put a Bill before the House to take the UK out of the EU without a referendum. It is often said that the 'people must be consulted' on matters of constitutional change, but the principle is assumed to mean a General Election not a referendum. The referendum in 1975 took place barely 2 years after the UK joined, and was held by Harold Wilson to shut up his Left-wing who threatened his fragile majority in the Commons, only they lost the vote, carried on as if nothing had happened, and leaving the EU was Labour Party policy by 1981, when the party was powerless to do anything about it.

Cameron called this referendum because he believed with a working majority the Conservative party had a stronger position than Labour, and because UKIP had failed to win more than 1 seat in the Commons. His biggest gamble was that those in his own Party who want the UK to leave would remain a noisy minority and have little impact whereas he has seen Cabinet ministers join the Leave campaign and, in effect, challenge his leadership of the party so that what Cameron thought would be a 'slam dunk' may turn out to be the biggest mistake of his political career.

For the record, and setting aside the 1967 Referendum in Gibraltar that confirmed their decision to remain in the UK (rather than become part of Spain), there have been 11 other Referenda, mostly on issues related to Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland.
http://www.parliament.uk/get-involve...eld-in-the-uk/