Shall we stay or shall we go???????

[bruce_willy]

Basil Fawlty, he say FU to the EU.


http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news...-slams-8172299

[chupapau]

Really? You could have fooled me.

https://thescepticisle.com/2016/04/1...never-will-be/

I'm voting out.

Using sider-liners arguments is exactly what lead to this bad situation. I fully agree with anyone who says that this EU is going in the wrong direction. And still I'll defend the notion of the EU, and will find that it is my duty to put my shoulders under it to push it in a better direction. That is the responsibility of anyone living in a democracy, including you.

For nearly three decades you guys considered it a farce and sent your worst politicians over there, and even then, you failed to look what the f*ck your representatives were doing there. I'll tell you what they did, whether they were Tory, Labour or that puppetry called UKIP : they went to fill their pockets, selling their votes to the Monsantos of the world, in complete disregard over their constituencies needs. And your own frigging media did their absolute best to hide that from you. All on behalf of the City.

Politics, and democracy, is about doing things, not about going all Jeremy Clarkson on somebodies ass. Funny for ten seconds, until you realize the consequences.

[fab]

This dishonest post is lacking the quotation marks as the text I have highlighted in Bold is word for word from a report in the Daily Mail published on the 27th December 2013. The problem is that being 'overcrowded' is not the same as being 'densely populated' and England is chosen for the reason that if the UK were the subject then the UK would be ranked the 7th most densely populated country in Europe, but that would not suit the political project that the Daily Mail supports.

A more balanced assessment can be found here-
http://theconversation.com/fact-chec...n-europe-38468

My bad, sorry & I hate quoting Daily Mail. However, I live in North London & it feels very over crowded, here in London & the South East. Before you say leave London, I cannot because of the specific type of work I do. Also I hate to say this but on quiet a few occasions when going shopping in Finchley, I have not heard English spoken. At times, I feel like a foreigner in my own country. Don't get me wrong, I love multi culture, but not when I'm in the minority on most occasions. Other countries in Europe don't have such multi cultures as the UK & they don't feel as over populated as here.

[fab]

Did I say I wanted to go to Scotland ?
I said I love Scotland NOT live.

What makes you think the Scots will have you?
They may have a quota on immigrants!

[makerandmodder]

Stay

[Stavros]

My bad, sorry & I hate quoting Daily Mail. However, I live in North London & it feels very over crowded, here in London & the South East. Before you say leave London, I cannot because of the specific type of work I do. Also I hate to say this but on quiet a few occasions when going shopping in Finchley, I have not heard English spoken. At times, I feel like a foreigner in my own country. Don't get me wrong, I love multi culture, but not when I'm in the minority on most occasions. Other countries in Europe don't have such multi cultures as the UK & they don't feel as over populated as here.

I cannot deny that the rise in immigration since the 1990s has placed a strain on social provisions such as housing, but the situation looks bad because successive British governments have implemented policies that have reduced the availability of low-rent low-cost accommodation in London, and encouraged rent and house price inflation to the extent that many long-established London residents have had to leave for somewhere else. It is not clear to me precisely how immigrants affect the NHS but in schooling it has always been the case that planning needs to factor in the growth of demand for 6-12 year olds followed by a net decline in that cohort, ditto the 12-18 year olds, it is really just a matter of planning and commitments to fund state education. Most of these problems are due to lack of investment in the infrastructure and social services by the government, not the EU.

On the other hand, British citizens do live and work in the EU and there are parts of southern Spain where you will not hear much Spanish spoken and many ex-pats don't even bother to learn Spanish, just as in parts of Bethnal Green and Shoreditch around 1900 you were most likely to hear people speaking Russian and Yiddish, with the irony in your case that many of their grandchildren ended up in Finchley, although these days London's Jewish community is in decline.

European states are indeed multi-cultural -the (West) German 'economic miracle' of the 1950s and 1960s would not have happened as it did without Marshall Aid from the US, and immigrant workers from Portugal, Yugoslavia, Greece, Italy and of course Turkey. In the Netherlands their Empire has guaranteed a multi-cultural society with immigrants from Surinam, the Caribbean and the old empire in South-East Asia. France reached an accommodation with Morocco, Tunisia and Algeria in order to embark on a major programme of industrialization -when de Gaulle became President in 1958 he was told this programme needed 100,000 immigrants a year to succeed. Belgium after the Second World War became home to thousands of Italians, many working in the mines, whereas in the UK a third wave of Italian immigrants (following the first two phases in the 19th century) came to work in the vehicle plants in Bedford and Luton areas. We have always been able to cope, to absorb and to offer opportunities to immigrants who in turn have created jobs and businesses and shoved plenty of money to the government in tax. Most of our care homes are staffed by immigrants from outside the EU such as Africa and Asia, and I do wonder who would be doing those jobs if non-Commonwealth immigrants or anyone not able to earn £35,000 a year were 'sent home'.

The problem is immigration will not change substantially whether the UK is in or out of the EU, this is a fantasy spread by UKIP types who not only want zero immigration but the next step -repatriation. Whether or not the Blacks or the Jews will be first in line is a matter of conjecture. The timetable tells us: if the UK votes Leave in 9 days time, the next step will be a series of meetings, beginning in October I expect, that will arrange another set of meetings for 2017 to work out how to negotiate the exit, when, and with reference to what sectors. A piecemeal withdrawal will thus mean many aspects of the EU relationship will continue for years, if only because contracts have been signed, orders placed for goods, and other commitments made that cannot be tossed away the day after the vote.

Crucially, if the UK wants to trade in the single market, it will have to do so on the EU's terms, and if the EU insists on retaining the four freedoms -the free movement of people, goods, services and capital- the best the UK can hope for in people is a cap, and that does not deal with non-Eu immigration. In the meantime, a fall in the value of the pound sterling will lead to a rise in interest rates, a decline in the value of housing, higher unemployment and inflation.

The UK might be better off outside the EU in 15 or 20 years time during which the EU as it is now may cease to exist anyway, but do you want to write off the next 10 years in pursuit of an economy that, inevitably, will reward -not you, but the top 5% as it always has done? The risk is all, and it is up to those who want to leave to admit that they think it is a risk worth taking. I do not.

[flabbybody]

Whatever happened to those Ladbrokes odds?

[chupapau]

Whatever happened to those Ladbrokes odds?

how much for a draw???

[The Piper]

I do not.

What is it about the anti-democratic corrupt EU that you like?

[Stavros]

What is it about the anti-democratic corrupt EU that you like?

Not my list but one that I agree with:
Here are a few you may not have heard about .
Providing 57% of our trade;
EU-funded research and industrial collaboration;
cheaper mobile charges;
cheaper air travel;
improved consumer protection and food labelling;
better product safety;
support for democracy and human rights across Europe and beyond;
freedom to travel, live and work across Europe;
funded opportunities for young people to undertake study or work placements abroad;
access to European health services;
labour protection and enhanced social welfare;
structural funding to areas hit by industrial decline;
clean beaches and rivers;
cleaner air;
lead free petrol;
restrictions on landfill dumping;
a recycling culture;
a ban on growth hormones and other harmful food additives;
break up of monopolies;
single market competition bringing quality improvements and better industrial performance;
EU-inspired Freedom of Information Act
Europe-wide patent and copyright protection;
no paperwork or customs for exports throughout the single market;
price transparency and removal of commission on currency exchanges across the eurozone;
smoke-free workplaces;
equal pay legislation;
holiday entitlement;
the right not to work more than a 48-hour week without overtime;
strongest wildlife protection in the world;
improved animal welfare in food production;
EU representation in international forums;
Bloc EEA negotiation at the WTO;
EU diplomatic efforts to uphold the nuclear non-proliferation treaty;
European arrest warrant;
cross border policing to combat human trafficking, arms and drug smuggling; counter terrorism intelligence;
European civil and military co-operation in post-conflict zones in Europe and Africa;
investment across Europe contributing to better living standards and educational, social and cultural capital.
All of this is nothing compared with its greatest achievements:
The EU has for 60 years been the foundation of peace between European neighbours after centuries of bloodshed.
It furthermore assisted the extraordinary political, social and economic transformation of 13 former dictatorships,
now EU members, since 1980.