Ali

[youngblood61]

Frazier was hurt because he helped Ali when Ali lost his license to box. Even lending Ali money,and speaking up for him. Frazier didn't expect those words especially after he helped the Champ. Ali was a businessman, he knew the more he amped it up, the bigger the gate.

[Stavros]

Was Muhammad Ali 'the Greatest'? No, of course not, it is no different from calling Elvis 'the King' or Michael Jackson 'the King (or Queen) of Pop' -worthless propaganda. Even Boxing aficionados will make claims for Joe Louis, Sugar Ray Robinson and Joe Frazier over Ali. Can you claim world titles against Sonny Liston when the fights were fixed, even if Ali was not responsible? In the notorious 'Rumble in the Jungle' in 1974, the Foreman camp insisted on the smallest ring possible at 16 feet, with the tension on the ropes slacked, and extra padding on the canvas, allegedly to slow Ali down, even though he was slower than he had been ten years before. Then Foreman claimed he had been drugged by his own trainer before the fight, and the fight was arranged with a $10m purse that Zaire's crooked President, Joseph Mobutu Sese Seko had stolen from the national bank, but as the fight was arranged by Don King, a convicted racketeer and murderer who should not have been allowed anywhere near a Boxing ring, it was all par for the course, and just as Ali didn't care about the stolen cash, nobody seems to have cared about Mobutu's political prisoners in the cells under the Ring in the stadium where the fight was held. Had it been 1994, the fight would have been held in Baghdad, presided over by Saddam Hussein. 1974 may not be the lowest moment in sport, but that's because so many sports persons have been outed through their links to organised crime, cheating, illegal betting syndicates and drug enhanced performances we don't really know who is legit anymore.

But there was one truly Great American sportsman; he was the first person to defeat Adolf Hitler, and he was Black.
In 1936 the Olympic Games in Munich was held when the Nazis were at the peak of popularity; the games were designed to prove what a roaring success the Nazis had made of Germany, and to be an exhibition of 'Aryan supremacy' by the 'Master Race'. Jesse Owens not only demolished that bogus theory of race, he single-handedly inflicted that first, crucial defeat on Hitler and the Nazis by stripping them in pubic of their race-based belief in their own superiority and invincibility. Owens also proved to be precisely the kind of ambassador for the USA as a beacon of freedom and hope in the 1930s that Ali could be be in the 1960s.
In their own contexts, both men achieved a lot for Black people everywhere, but with Ali it was with that cheap virility symbol -violence- associated with a bent and crooked sport; with Owens, his individual achievement in Athletics was a success for the USA, the whole of mankind, and for all time.

[ElectricWoody]

This post is dedicated to a Heavy Weight Fighter who has his own claim to fame. Most of us would prefer to remember his human quality's as a person and in the ring. No King or Queen was there nor is this post about them. No reason to bring in the Inuendos or whatever prejudice it is.
Nuf Said.

[tgirllover_1]

The CHAMP...

[gmb]

Good old times:

[SanDiegoPervySage]

polititically correct who cares if he called a nigga a nigga fufufufu

This mofo

[ktkraft]

Ali was one of the most pro black of his era. Im pretty sure its because Frazier actually has some gorialla like characteristics. chill

[EZWind]

In their own contexts, both men achieved a lot for Black people everywhere, but with Ali it was with that cheap virility symbol -violence- associated with a bent and crooked sport; with Owens, his individual achievement in Athletics was a success for the USA, the whole of mankind, and for all time.

...I don't know man, winning a Gold Medal at the Olympics seems to me would qualify as achieving a success for one's nation. And OK, so he gained fame and recognition for his prowess as a prizefighter, but his legacy extends far beyond the ring when it comes to his anti war stance and the struggle for civil rights and human rights for the underprivelaged. Doesn't matter how big of a shitheel Don King or Mobutu were. And neither does it matter how badly Jesse Owens embarrassed the Nazis (at a sport, incidentally, maybe not as bad as boxing but not exactly squeeky clean either when it comes to cheating) ...and it's not about them anyway.
And boo hoo....so poor Joe Frazier got his feelings hurt.... that by no means makes Ali a racist. I was not aware that he had helped Ali and lent him money etc. so alright, bad judgement call there, maybe he shouldn't have laid it on so heavy. But c'mon Joe, you're sposed to be a fighter....roll w/ the punch, get over it and move on

[samspud]

What I find most disconcerting about Ali was the change of name, The Nation of Islam gave him his name for political reasons only and they flat out lied to him about the origins of his birth name. The original Cassius Clay did more to abolish slavery than just about any man of his time.