For the Brits: When will BREXIT referendum happen ?

[Stavros]

All above is just your opinion, I find it so sad some of you people seem to be reduced to virtual tears over it, I accept very little of what you say above, to simply say all the countries within the EU are in it because "it works" means nothing. That's just my opinion.
If you are not a Politician, I am not convinced, then you should be. Of course, the thing with Politicians is they don't listen to others and understand virtually nothing about real life!

Yes Peejaye, some of the above is just my opinion, but not all of it. Take the question of the border in Ireland. And let us know how you would resolve the dilemma I outlined above.

[peejaye]

You will put it back, Good Friday agreement or not! Life moves on, things change, new agreements are made. Didn't the UK take Northern Ireland off of the Irish in the first place? Or have I got my wires crossed? If not; Give it back to them. Problem solved!

[Stavros]

Peejaye, the reason why the border issue is proving difficult to solve is precisely because the Irish do not want the border back, the Northern Irish don't want the border back but thanks to you there has to be some way of monitoring the traffic in goods between an EU and a non-EU country and the Good Friday Agreement underlines the existing situation in the EU with the free movement of people, goods, capital and services that you voted against. You made the decision knowing this dilemma would arise yet you cannot face the responsibility for sorting it out but resort to solutions you know the Protestants will not accept. Carson led the Protestants out of Ireland with the help of the British government and the desperate need that Michael Collins had for a solution to a situation in which violence was taking over daily life in Ireland. Historians continue to debate who played the leading role, but we know Collins paid for the Treaty with his life, Ireland was plunged into civil war, and the outcome was in some quarters a bitterness that barely went away before being stirred up again in 'the Troubles'. Yeats put it well:

Out of Ireland have we come.
Great hatred, little room,
Maimed us at the start.
I carry from my mother's womb
A fanatic heart.”

[peejaye]

Stop beating yourself up & blaming people who don't agree with you & let the Politicians sort it out! It's what we actually pay those reptiles to do!

[Stavros]

Stop beating yourself up & blaming people who don't agree with you & let the Politicians sort it out! It's what we actually pay those reptiles to do!

How are you going to make an informed decision on the most important vote in living memory, one that will affect you and your family for the rest of your life, not to mention the fate of people across Ireland as well as the EU? I am not blaming others, just calling their judgement into question. It appears people in responsible positions have made decisions without thinking through what the consequences might be, which is after all one of the key functions of a politician. And when faced with these consequences they still cannot agree. In time I expect there may be a solution, and that any trade negotiations will have to deal with ancillary issues such as the Border in Ireland, but as indicated above, the people involved for various reasons -some of them the legacy of history- could be immune to the compromises necessary to reach a practical agreement. If it is not dealt with satisfactorily, it has the potential to lead the UK to 'crash out' of the EU without a comprehensive agreement, but that would still leave the Border issue live, and frustrating for all concerned.

[peejaye]

I'd like to say I understand your frustrations but I don't? I've got more important things to worry about than a border crossing between two countries!
It's a great shame you & the Politicians didn't show the same compassion for the coal miners, steel workers & shipyard workers & the hundreds and thousands of other multi-skilled workers who had their lives destroyed by mindless Government Policy!

[Stavros]

I'd like to say I understand your frustrations but I don't? I've got more important things to worry about than a border crossing between two countries!
It's a great shame you & the Politicians didn't show the same compassion for the coal miners, steel workers & shipyard workers & the hundreds and thousands of other multi-skilled workers who had their lives destroyed by mindless Government Policy!

I guess it is my own fault for being too analytical, it is not that I don't care about the fate of the workers but that in the cases you cite the reasons why their jobs went has more to do with the way capitalism has functioned and whatever compassion has is futile when confronting forces far greater than feelings can control. British shipyards failed because they could not compete with the growth of foreign yards, and on crucial parts of a contract like price and delivery. When the famous Palmer's Yard closed in the 1930s it was due to over-capacity in the industry and the slump, the even more famous march from Jarrow to London failed to re-open it. Customers who could buy ships from Finland or Japan went there because the British architects developed a reputation for wasting time querying the specs or trying to change them, while time was often lost as management sought to reduce cost overruns by cutting hours and creating confrontation with the Unions which also led to delays and cost overruns. Compare that to the Japanese -if they said they were going to deliver a 250,000 tonne ship at Noon on April 10th, it could be seen on the horizon at 11 and dock at Noon, on time and on budget.
I have already explained to you that the Coal industry went through various phases, mostly related to over-capacity and that once oil and gas became more abundant and cheaper, the days when coal was King were doomed. The working class culture that the Miners created varied enormously throughout the UK, from the pit villages with their own libraries in Wales to the Brass Band movement in the North -politics and culture being a proud legacy of this once almighty industry. When Scargill led the miners off a cliff in 1983-84, he took their jobs with him, but not the history. Without coal, you, as a consumer, got cheap North Sea gas and a cleaner environment.

And you should care about the border in Ireland, because the issue is not going to go away, and you voted for a situation in which thousands of people could lose their jobs, their businesses, maybe even their homes -all for some vague promise that things will be better when we leave the EU, made by the same politicians for whom you appear to show a disdain bordering on contempt.

[Jericho]

You will put it back, Good Friday agreement or not! Life moves on, things change, new agreements are made. Didn't the UK take Northern Ireland off of the Irish in the first place? Or have I got my wires crossed? If not; Give it back to them. Problem solved!

I don't know if you've spent any time in N.I. (i'm guessing not), but that is *not* a solution!

[peejaye]

And you should care about the border in Ireland, because the issue is not going to go away, and you voted for a situation in which thousands of people could lose their jobs, their businesses, maybe even their homes -all for some vague promise that things will be better when we leave the EU, made by the same politicians for whom you appear to show a disdain bordering on contempt.

Ha ha! I have nothing to add to my previous posting! Losing their jobs & homes? Just like the Miners, Steelworkers.......

[peejaye]

I don't know if you've spent any time in N.I. (i'm guessing not), but that is *not* a solution!

That's correct Jericho, I haven't been to N.I. but have been to Eire. Just making a point to the Politician it's not my job to find a solution. I was given a vote & used it.
My priorities are to find a job so I can put food on the table! The politicians can find a solution & I hope they loose shitloads of sleep over it! Though I doubt that very much.