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  1. #521
    filghy2 Professional Poster
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    Default Re: For the Brits: When will BREXIT referendum happen ?

    Quote Originally Posted by broncofan View Post
    Is there anyone who thinks that their reps should say, "we had a vote for a non binding referendum, and though the people voted in favour of it, it is only advisory. Parliament is sovereign and after investigating the issue and moving forward in good faith, we cannot implement a soft or hard brexit without doing both immediate and long-term damage to our economy."
    It would be legally possible to ignore the referendum but I don't think it's politically tenable. It would leave a lot of embittered Brexit voters feeling betrayed by the system and poison UK politics even more than it is now. If the political system is going to ignore a vote because of undesirable consequences then it would be far better to not have the referendum in the first place.

    The problem with referenda is that they can only resolve a contentious issue if the result is decisive and there can be no argument about what the people were voting for. The 1975 referendum met these conditions, but the 2016 one did not. A second referendum won't resolve the issue unless it can satisfy these conditions, which means it can't just be a re-run of the 2016 referendum.


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  2. #522
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    Default Re: For the Brits: When will BREXIT referendum happen ?

    Either this is the momentous week in British politics when the UK moves toward its exit from the EU, or it is another week of uncertain outcomes. The Guardian offers this useful road map (scroll to bottom of the article) the first key vote expected this evening (12 March 2019).

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics...-crucial-votes



  3. #523
    Eurotrash! Platinum Poster Jericho's Avatar
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    Default Re: For the Brits: When will BREXIT referendum happen ?

    Christ on a bike!
    With the latest defeat, tomorrow's going to be..Interesting!


    I hate being bipolar...It's fucking ace!

  4. #524
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    Default Re: For the Brits: When will BREXIT referendum happen ?

    Interesting to the point of being bizarre. The Government proposes a motion to rule out No Deal before the 29th March, but when an amendment changes to the wording to remove that speciific date, the Government, having promised its own party a free vote, suddenly imposes a three-line whip to vote against what originally was its own, now amended motion, which it loses, with four Cabinet members abstaining from the vote rather than support the Government (in effect, Theresa May) but have not been sacked, unless, like football fans chanting at the manager of losing team they are to be 'sacked in the morning'. And that followed the surreal moment earlier in the day when the Chancellor of the Exchequer delivered his 'Spring Statement' on the economy in which he warned against a No Deal Brexit which is the default position of...the Government he sits in...

    In normal times the Prime Minister would resign, but Theresa Mat is either a fighter, deluded, or a clever politician who spent a lot of the day debating options with MPs from the Democrratic Unionist Party who we now know are desperate for some kind of deal as Northern Ireland faces ruin. If even these obstinate obstacles to Brexit are moving, and if May can persuade enough Labour rebels to do so, she will try for a third time to get the Withdrawal Agreement voted through, though there is a rumour the Speaker will not permit it, if he can.

    Thursday's vote (ie later today) will seek a delay to Article 50. In technical terms the legal instruments that accompany Brexit have not been cleared through the House so the argument will be a 'pro forma' exit on the 29th with June 30 the actual 'exit day' -the EU may agree to this, but it is now known they are opposed to any extension of Article 50 if it has no meaningful purpose.

    The other gossip is that if these motions and amendments fail, and May after the defeat in effect told the House so what? it's my deal or no deal, the ERG will join Labour to bring a vote of No Confidence in the Government -again!- on the basis that MPs are in such despair, so genuinely scared the voters regard them with contempt May will fall and a General Election be held in, well, May...

    Where this leaves the UK with regard to Brexit, the EU Parliamentary Elections in May (does anyone get tired of that word) we will find out as the last bars of this tragic opera play out over the next 7 days.

    It's not over until the lady sings, though right now she has lost her voice...



  5. #525
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    Default Re: For the Brits: When will BREXIT referendum happen ?

    After the day when four cabinet members preferrd to abstain rather than support their own government and Prime Minister, and were not sacked by her, today broke new records, and for that matter broke into eight pieces at least, the theory and practice of Cabinet Government and Cabinet Collective Responsibility. On the motion to delay Article 50, which the Government won, no less than eight members of the Cabinet voted against the motion -most bizarre of all, the Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union, Stephen Barclay ended the debate with a rousing speech in support of the motion, but then walked through the No lobby to seek to defeat it....

    ...as for Her Majesty's Loyal Opposition, a Second Referendum was endorsed as Labour Party policy at their 2018 Conference if the Government failed to secure a deal, and Jeremy Corbyn was forced by his own party in Parliament to endorse it last week, yet today, when the motion to secure a Second Referendum was proposed Labour decided to oppose it on the basis 'now is not the time', and it was defeated. I am opposed to a second referendum, but for those who saw it as the only alternative to a failed deal by the Government, this was a betrayal, Labour proving it is incapable of making a coherent decision on Brexit, and further proof that there appears to be no integrated party system in the House of Commons with the exception of the Scottish National Party and the Democratic Unionist Party. Tory and Labour Parties are now just a loose assembly of people who do what they want with no regard for party policy or discipline.

    If it was producing results it might not matter, but it is not. The Government will seek agreement from the EU to extend Article 50 June 20 in order to pass the remaining statutory instruments associated with Article 50 that have not cleared Parliament, but we still do not know if they will agree to it, though they might, while we are told the Withdrawal Agreement rejected twice will be voted on a third time next week if The Speaker agrees to allow a failed motion to be brought before the House again, which normally can only be done if there is a substantial change to it. If that fails the Government may seek a two year delay to Brexit, but that is still speculation. Sme chatter suggests the DUP will vote for the Withdrawal Agreement if the Government can find the wording to make the 'Backstop' acceptable, but who knows? So many strange things have happened in the last two weeks, we can't be sure what will happen in the next 48 hours.


    Last edited by Stavros; 03-15-2019 at 01:04 AM.

  6. #526
    Eurotrash! Platinum Poster Jericho's Avatar
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    Default Re: For the Brits: When will BREXIT referendum happen ?

    when the motion to secure a Second Referendum was proposed Labour decided to oppose it on the basis 'now is not the time', and it was defeated.
    In fairness, they were going on the advice of whomever runs the 'Peoples Vote' campaign ('Peoples' whatever...something else blairites should answer for)!

    But beyond that, Indeed...What the fuck is going on!


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  7. #527
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    Default Re: For the Brits: When will BREXIT referendum happen ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jericho View Post
    In fairness, they were going on the advice of whomever runs the 'Peoples Vote' campaign ('Peoples' whatever...something else blairites should answer for)!

    But beyond that, Indeed...What the fuck is going on!
    You seriously think Jeremy Corbyn based his decision on the 'People's Vote' campaign? If that were the case why is still leader of the party? It was an opportunity to vote for something many, if not most of the party in Parliament have been calling for -the leadership ducked it at the last moment for the simple reason that they want to see the Government fall and a General Election in May, which is getting more likely by the day.

    Today the DUP are in talks with No 10 to find a formula whereby they can support the Prime Minister's 'unacceptable deal', but will the ERG fall into line? I can't imagine Steve Baker or Marc Francois doing it. I am not even sure if the Government can bring the same WA to the Commons for a third time unless it is in some way different from what it was before. Ah well, another week of uncertainty, Jericho. Do you think you should run for Parliament? Could you make a difference?



  8. #528
    Eurotrash! Platinum Poster Jericho's Avatar
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    Default Re: For the Brits: When will BREXIT referendum happen ?

    You seriously think Jeremy Corbyn based his decision on the 'People's Vote' campaign?
    After the failure of his own motion for a 2nd ref recently, I think it was more based on mathematics.

    Ah well, another week of uncertainty, Jericho. Do you think you should run for Parliament? Could you make a difference?

    ArfArf, Jericho, Minister for Transexual Affairs!

    I may have the morals of a dissolute alleycat, but I'm a European alleycat. Electorate be damned, I couldn't work towards taking us out of Europe, so no, I probably couldn't make a difference.


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  9. #529
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    Default Re: For the Brits: When will BREXIT referendum happen ?

    Well I just got my new passport today, I applied for it three weeks ago. It's got "European Union" on the top line of the front cover! What the fuck is that all about? Does someone know something they haven't shared with the rest of us?
    Live in hope Jericho!



  10. #530
    Eurotrash! Platinum Poster Jericho's Avatar
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    Default Re: For the Brits: When will BREXIT referendum happen ?

    HolyKrap, Bercow's thrown a spanner in the works!

    (That will piss the DUPs off, They were about to get a fresh bribe, er, i mean, 'incentive').


    House of Commons Speaker John Bercow has scuppered any chance of another Commons vote on Theresa May’s Brexit withdrawal agreement before Thursday’s EU summit.

    Mr Bercow ruled that the Prime Minister cannot bring her EU withdrawal deal back before MPs unless it is substantially different from the package which was decisively defeated last week.

    Mr Bercow’s ruling, announced in an unexpected statement to the Commons, throws a further obstacle in the way of the Prime Minister’s scramble to get a deal agreed by the scheduled date of Brexit on March 29.

    https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/...ntial-changes/


    I hate being bipolar...It's fucking ace!

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