For the Brits: When will BREXIT referendum happen ?

[trish]

One also argues for the ears that listen or the eyes that read silently, think and bring your ideas into their own discourses.

[Jericho]

Let us just hope that if there is a second referendum the result will not be a repeat of the first one!

That would be insanity!

[peejaye]

If it was you lot would only demand a third referendum!

[filghy2]

One also argues for the ears that listen or the eyes that read silently, think and bring your ideas into their own discourses.

Another incurable optimist Call me cynic, but I think people take part in these discussions primarily because they enjoy arguing as an end in itself. I doubt that many members other than the participants read the posts in this section and I've never seen any evidence of anyone changing their mind on any significant matter.

[fred41]

I've changed my mind lots of times, over the years, thanks to some of these very same posts. Seriously.
You have to really open your mind, not just say it.

[Stavros]

In the nick of time, and after night flights to Brussels, phone calls, extended meetings and dead-lines, the UK has concluded the first phase of its negotiations with the EU and can now move to phase two, which begin in the New Year, to open talks on security and trade.

On the three outstanding issues, there is a basic agreement that EU/UK Citizens have right to remain in their current places of abode, that the decisions of the European Court of Justice will be the arbiters of justice in a two-year transition period and that more generally,

“the [ECJ] is the ultimate arbiter of the interpretation of union law” and “UK courts shall therefore have due regard to relevant decisions of the [ECJ] after the specified date [of departure]” as well as consulting with it if the law is unclear. In the last few days, as compromise became inevitable, the British government had attempted to limit this ongoing role to less than five years. The final text includes a sunset clause of eight years instead.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...es-brexit-deal

The agreement to maintain payments to the EU on the basis of existing commitments has been made, but where the headline figure has been between 45-50 billion Euros, an ongoing commitment may in fact increase the sum and the number of years the UK will remain liable for EU expenses, thus:

In her Florence speech, May first conceded that the UK would honour all the ongoing spending commitments of the current EU budget round, even after Brexit. But the divorce agreement makes clear this extends to future spending many years beyond that too. These so-called reste à liquider (RAL) payments will be made when they fall due, rather than upfront, but this only lengthens the extent of British financial obligations.
The UK has also agreed that various contingent liabilities, such as foreign loans and staff pensions, will similarly be offset by some assets it has identified in the EU books. But this means it will take more than a decade, for example, for the UK to be reimbursed for the money it has paid into the European Investment Bank.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...es-brexit-deal

The vexing problem of the border in Ireland between North and South is a fine example of diplomatic linguistic fog -on the one hand the Prime Minister insists the UK is leaving the EU/Single Market/Customs Union, and Northern Ireland will in every sense remain in the UK, while the specific issue of the border itself has been kicked down the road to be discussed in the context of trade. But for Norther Ireland it appears to both give the DUP some vestige of decision-making power, while exposing the contradiction of the current position of the UK government, because it is claimed Northern Ireland will even its own powers-

though the agreement pledges “unfettered access” to UK markets for Northern Ireland whatever happens, it places responsibility on the Northern Ireland executive - which doesn’t currently function – to agree any new rules to stop Northern Ireland from diverging from the Republic and thus stop a hard border from forming. This basically means that if the other points fail, the executive – in which the DUP also has a veto because of powersharing rules – would have to pass the laws to keep Northern Ireland in the single market and customs union, which they say they don’t want
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a8098566.html

For some, this is a triumph for Theresa May, because it secures her position as an effective negotiator. It appears to suggest the EU is not taking as rigid a position as some believed and that it is prepared to compromise -for now at least- to keep the talks going, to prevent the UK crashing out of the EU. At the moment it appears Boris Johnson and Michael Gove approve, if only because it means their jobs, salaries and perks are safe. But note the angry reaction of the Night King, writing in the Telegraph-

Every day that the Prime Minister remains in office brings us closer to a Corbyn government and a betrayal of Brexit
And so Theresa May has got her deal. But at what cost? To the 17.4 million Britons who voted to leave the EU, I would argue a heavy one. For the plain fact is that the UK remains a member of the EU in all but name. This is a fudge, as anyone who cares to be honest with themselves will acknowledge.
According to the terms as they appear this morning, vast sums of public money will continue to flow from the UK to Brussels. Britain will continue to be in the grip of the European Court of Justice. And no trade deals can be struck yet because of the transition zone in which the UK will be stuck.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...resa-may-late/

[Jericho]

Anal lube, anyone?

[peejaye]

So Teresa May as got her deal as she? It's a shame she hasn't explained to anyone exactly what it is?

[Stavros]

Anal lube, anyone?

Not yet not yet not not not yet, wait, wait...wait...oh bugger! Looks like we have to wait for phase two.

[slave2u]

So Teresa May as got her deal as she? It's a shame she hasn't explained to anyone exactly what it is?

the deal seems to be - we have dicked around for a few months with double d and bojo saying how tough we are - only to say to the eu - oh here have all you asked for - now let's see what crumbs we can have from the table.
(ironically this pretty much happens at the moment where they are talking about a united europe and countries that didn't ratify the new treaty would be excluded. shit we could have been bought out rather than this clusterfuck that farage and co has gotten us into.)