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  1. #471
    Eurotrash! Platinum Poster Jericho's Avatar
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    Default Re: For the Brits: When will BREXIT referendum happen ?

    Billions set aside for a No-deal brexit, troops on standby...Get fucking ready!

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  2. #472
    Senior Member Professional Poster peejaye's Avatar
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    Default Re: For the Brits: When will BREXIT referendum happen ?

    Billions... where's that lot come from?
    Troops? Have we still got any? Bring it on brother!


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  3. #473
    Eurotrash! Platinum Poster Jericho's Avatar
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    Default Re: For the Brits: When will BREXIT referendum happen ?

    That fucking magic money tree again, init!


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  4. #474
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    Default Re: For the Brits: When will BREXIT referendum happen ?

    Nothing sums up the situation better than the fact that after two momentous votes, one day after the other in the Hoise of Commons, nothing has changed.

    The same people -Tory and Labour- who voted to repeal the act that took the UK into the EU in 1972, and who voted in favour of the Government informing the EU of its intention to leave under Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty, waited for two years while the UK and the EU negotiated the terms of withdrawal, then voted against it.

    The Tories who voted against their own government claimed the Withdrawal Agreement was a sell-out to the EU and tied the UK to the EU through the 'backstop' arrangement over the border in Ireland, but if it was removed from the Agreement they would find something else to object to, though apart from leaving with No Deal, as a Hard Brexit is now called, they have no practical alternative of their own.

    Labour, in spite of its claim to honour the referendum result, doesn't care about the EU and wants a General Election they are convinced they will win, to focus on domestic issues such as the NHS, transport, poverty and so on. They voted against the WA out of spite, to wreck the Brexit process, or to chortle like parrots 'People's Vote! People's Vote!' in the vain hope there will be one.

    As a result our political system is paralysed. Theresa May has offered and indeed held talks with party leaders in an effort to break the impasse -but not Corbyn who refuses to meet her unless and until she confirms she will not take the UK out of then EU without a deal. Having stabbed Britain in the back over Brexit, Labour now walks the plank like a spoiled child, unaware of the dark grey ocean beneath waiting to claim another victim.

    So Theresa May mus return to the Commons next Monday with the rabbit she has pulled from the Brexit hat, like magic. It is called Plan B, but nobody knows what it is, neither Theresa nor the Rabbit even though the Commons will vote on it on the 29th of January.

    Practical terms there are options-
    a) Theresa May could seek an extension of Article 50 but as the Withdrawal Act specifies the 29th of March as 'Exit Day' I assume the act must be amended and the date removed, though this will offend the Brexit Apostles who see treachery in every move Mrs May makes. But with Tory rebels and Labour support this motion could pass in the House.

    b) if the EU is unwilling to amend then WA, May could re-write parts of the Political Declaration that accompanied it, but to say what? She committed the UK to leaving the Single Market, the Customs Union, the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice, and ending financial contributions to the EU. Her own 'red lines' have boxed her into a non-negotiable negotiating position. I can't see how anything she proposes will work in such a divided House where she relies on the swindlers of Northerm Ireland to remain in office.

    c) similarly anything the EU offers will be designed to protect its interests, much as the backstop protects Ireland's position in the Customs Union, and will be opposed by the House.

    d) if there is no agreement then technically the UK leaves without a deal, but while Parliament has sort of said it doesn't like the idea, it has not either amended the Withdrawal Act or stated in a separate piece of legislation that the UK must secure a deal before leaving, so in theory the UK could remain in the EU and it would fall to someone in Parliament to prosecute the Governmemt for breaking the law, or the EU could pretend the UK has not left the EU because there is no agreement, and do so to keep the flow of trade going while some new deal is worked out.

    e) or we could all agree that as we cannot agree on how to do it, the Withdrawal Act is a dead letter, Exit Day comes and goes and nothing changes, because Brexit is Dead.

    To confirm the paradox Theresa May is loathed by her own party and blamed for the catastrophic election campaign of 2017 that robbed them of their Comons majority, and have in effect ridiculed and abused her as a traitor to the Referendum cause, yet she won the leadership contest in December and they all voted in favour of her just two days ago. It is rare in politics to encounter so many critics unwilling to put themselves forward as alternative leaders with an alternative vision, other than Jeremy Corbyn who day by day looks like the Ghost of Christmas Past who thinks it is 1974 all over again.

    And if you are still reading this, you must be wondering why. #metoo.


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  5. #475
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    Default Re: For the Brits: When will BREXIT referendum happen ?

    Corbyn’s stunningly puerile behaviour in walking away just beggars belief. The EU must be having hysterics.


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  6. #476
    Eurotrash! Platinum Poster Jericho's Avatar
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    Default Re: For the Brits: When will BREXIT referendum happen ?

    Jeremy Corbyn won't talk to May unless she guarantees a 'no deal' brexit is taken off the table. The other three party leaders, snp, libdems, and greens, agreed to talk and try to 'work things out'.

    What did they report back?
    Nothing.
    May wouldn't compromise a thing...As Jeremy Corbyn *knew* she wouldn't.
    Now, the only one left still willing to work with her is Vince Iscariot...No fucking surprise there!

    And you call it 'puerile', I call it having a spine.

    They voted against the WA out of spite, to wreck the Brexit process, or to chortle like parrots 'People's Vote! People's Vote!' in the vain hope there will be one.
    Rubbish.
    They voted against it because it was a shit deal (as did the other parties, and half her own)

    And as for the vote of confidence...What a bunch of hypocrites, party before country EVERY time.
    And even then, they only won because they paid a billion pound bribe for ten votes. Let that sink in.

    The fault for this sorry mess lies with one party and one party alone...The conservative party. They had two and half years to talk to other parties, and refused to do so....And now apparently, it's all Jeremy Corbyn's fault.
    I don't fucking think so!


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  7. #477
    Senior Member Professional Poster peejaye's Avatar
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    Default Re: For the Brits: When will BREXIT referendum happen ?

    Quote Originally Posted by rodinuk View Post
    Corbyn’s stunningly puerile behaviour in walking away just beggars belief. The EU must be having hysterics.
    CLASSIC! Just like the Establishment; Country is being FUCKED in every direction by these arseholes and this guy moans about the Leader of the opposition! HIS party didn't call the referendum....



  8. #478
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    Default Re: For the Brits: When will BREXIT referendum happen ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jericho View Post
    Jeremy Corbyn won't talk to May unless she guarantees a 'no deal' brexit is taken off the table. The other three party leaders, snp, libdems, and greens, agreed to talk and try to 'work things out'.

    What did they report back?
    Nothing.
    May wouldn't compromise a thing...As Jeremy Corbyn *knew* she wouldn't.
    Now, the only one left still willing to work with her is Vince Iscariot...No fucking surprise there!

    And you call it 'puerile', I call it having a spine.



    Rubbish.
    They voted against it because it was a shit deal (as did the other parties, and half her own)

    And as for the vote of confidence...What a bunch of hypocrites, party before country EVERY time.
    And even then, they only won because they paid a billion pound bribe for ten votes. Let that sink in.

    The fault for this sorry mess lies with one party and one party alone...The conservative party. They had two and half years to talk to other parties, and refused to do so....And now apparently, it's all Jeremy Corbyn's fault.
    I don't fucking think so!
    True. Corbyn is useless & a terrible leader but it is not his fault. The stinking scum Tories are to blame.



  9. #479
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    Default Re: For the Brits: When will BREXIT referendum happen ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jericho View Post
    The fault for this sorry mess lies with one party and one party alone...The conservative party. They had two and half years to talk to other parties, and refused to do so....And now apparently, it's all Jeremy Corbyn's fault.
    I don't fucking think so!
    Jericho, I am not suggesting Theresa May is not responsible, but that Corbyn has failed miserably to offer this country a genuine opposition to Brexit, regarding the entire process as a sideshow to his campaign to win the next election. He claims to have voted Remain but was keen to endorse the result of the referendum even though Leave won by less than 5% and he himself along with left-wing Labour MPs, Councillors and activists ignored completely the result of the 1975 referendum as if it had never happened. Why then and not now, when the key fault-line now is with those who believe compromise is the only way to leave the EU with some form of agreement on the terms of withdrawal, and those who believe any compromise is a betrayal of the referendum and thus of 'democracy' as they put it, even though we live in a Parliamentary Democracy not a Direct or Popular one?

    Thus Theresa May has produced what you call a 'shit deal' because it accepts that Ireland must have frictionless trade with the EU, with that trade passing through the UK to the EU and vice versa, and because it also meets the obligations the UK signed in the Anglo-Irish or 'Good Friday' Agreemen that ended the Troubles. I doubt you are in fact opposed to either of those arrangements, so I don't know why you call it a 'shit deal'. It is also the case that it is a contingency that only comes into effect if talks on trade fail, or take longer than expected. It is also the only deal on offer, and meets the objective to leave the EU with the minimum of disruption to trade.

    The argument from the Brexiteers that the Withdrawal Agreement tranforms a relationship based on equal rights to one of 'vassalage' would in any other context be comical if it were not such an insult to the intelligence. Even when it leaves the UK will negotiate an arrangement with the EU on the Customs Union and the Single Market, what on earth do they think the EU will expect from such a negotiation that does not benefit them? The logical position of the Brexiteers would be to have no relations with the EU at all if they are remotely close to the relations Norway and Switzerland have, but they have always wanted it all, to have all the benefits of being a member of the EU with none of the costs and obligations.

    Labour claims it wants some sort of arrangement with the Customs Union, but voted with the Tories twice to repeal the 1972 Act and to invoke Article 50, in effect endorsing the very 'red lines' that Theresa May made clear meant leaving the Single Market and the Customs Union, the ECJ and ending financial contributions. Corbyn failed to challenge her effectively on these and produced its own 'six tests' which so few people can identify they might as well not exist. Yet the 'red lines' are the prison into which May has checked into and which she cannot get out of unless the EU gives her the key, and there appears to be no sign they will, though the Press are reporting she is or will talk to Juncker this afternoon (Friday).

    Again, Labour has been 50% of this mess, they endorsed every stage of Brexit except the WA, but Corbyn refuses to meet her to discuss what Labour can do to meet its own commitment to leave the EU, a pathetic response to a national crisis. Perhaps he is too ashamed to admit his views on Brexit are actually close to hers, which he won't do because he needs to mantain his image as a left wing radical who doesn't talk to Tories or share platforms with them. If you want to know who wasted two years, point your finger at Corbyn, a hypocrite who has betrayed the people of this country and has not a single idea how to govern it, and probably doesn't care either.
    Other than Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP, who is really opposed to the stupidity of Brexit?

    And who knows where we shall be this time next week, with claims that significant Tories are preparing for a General Election in February?



  10. #480
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    Default Re: For the Brits: When will BREXIT referendum happen ?

    Quote Originally Posted by peejaye View Post
    CLASSIC! Just like the Establishment; Country is being FUCKED in every direction by these arseholes and this guy moans about the Leader of the opposition! HIS party didn't call the referendum....
    In fact, Peejaye they did. The 2016 Referendum was authorized by an act of Parliament -the European Union Referendum Act 2015- and passed with 544 votes in favour, 53 against, mostly the SNP. Labour endorsed rather than opposed the Referendum, it has endorsed the result of the Referendum, and is committed to taking the UK out of the EU.



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