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  1. #441
    Senior Member Professional Poster peejaye's Avatar
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    Default Re: For the Brits: When will BREXIT referendum happen ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stavros View Post

    You may want to invest in a fishing rod yourself, as the weenies in the Ouse may be the cheapest source of nutrition you can find in years to come.
    [/url]
    It don't get any better than this, you're a fucking Legend Stavros



  2. #442
    filghy2 Professional Poster
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    Default Re: For the Brits: When will BREXIT referendum happen ?

    Quote Originally Posted by peejaye View Post
    Other views are available other than "Extreme Liberalism"
    What exactly is this "Extreme Liberalism"? According to Wikipedia "Liberalism is a political view based on liberty and equality. Liberals generally support civil rights, democracy, secularism, gender equality, internationalism and the freedoms of speech, the press, religion and markets." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism



  3. #443
    filghy2 Professional Poster
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    Default Re: For the Brits: When will BREXIT referendum happen ?

    Quote Originally Posted by peejaye View Post
    Other views are available other than "Extreme Liberalism"
    Are you aware that you own party wants to maintain the single market and customs union with the EU? https://labour.org.uk/manifesto/negotiating-brexit/
    That must make them "extreme liberals", assuming that means anyone opposed to Farage's hard Brexit view.



  4. #444
    Senior Member Professional Poster peejaye's Avatar
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    Default Re: For the Brits: When will BREXIT referendum happen ?




  5. #445
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    Default Re: For the Brits: When will BREXIT referendum happen ?

    Quote Originally Posted by peejaye View Post
    It's only fucking money....
    It is also about the governance of Italy and whether or not Italy can challenge the EU at a level currently being experienced with Hungary. Even if there is a new government in Italy comprised of the Five Star Movement and the League, it has more potential to fall apart from internal dispute than from its incoherent policy on the Euro. As both have made hostility to immigration a major part of the platform their focus ought to be not on the EU, but on the UN and the Law of the Sea. The key point about the 'boat people' being manipulated by criminals in North Africa and risking their lives on small craft in the Mediterranean, is the same as it is for the 'Boat people' off the coast of Australia -they are protected by the Law of the Sea and specifically this:

    the normal international law is that if you are rescued in a country’s search and rescue zone, that country has an obligation to take you. You can go to the nearest port. And the nearest port is normally in the country whose search and rescue zone you’ve been picked up in.
    http://theconversation.com/explainer...-seekers-20125

    There is no hope of changing the law of the sea on this, not least because rescue at sea has been a norm of maritime life as well as international law for centuries, though combating criminal activity in North Africa would be more effective.



  6. #446
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    Default Re: For the Brits: When will BREXIT referendum happen ?

    Hypocrisy:

    Quote Originally Posted by peejaye View Post
    I don't read links, ESPECIALLY BBC links...
    Quote Originally Posted by peejaye View Post



  7. #447
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    Default Re: For the Brits: When will BREXIT referendum happen ?

    In an earlier post I said I expected the Third and final Reading of the EU (Withdrawal) Bill to take place in May, whereas it is now clear it will not happen until June.

    Meanwhile, as the Conservatives and Labour continue to tie themselves up in knots over the question of the/a Customs Union and the border in Northern Ireland, Jacob Rees-Mogg has complained that he thinks Theresa May is losing trust, and has clarified his view thus:

    "Fine words are well known for not buttering parsnips, and we are not getting our parsnips buttered at the moment.”
    https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk...d-suggests-she

    Not long ago I came across this hilarious exchange in the Telegraph, and laughed with relish.

    mike saul 26 May 2018 3:41PM
    Love the way Trump plays people.
    We should hire him to do the brexit negotiations.


    mike saul 26 May 2018 3:49PM
    If we did the EU would end paying us money to leave

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...g-un-surprise/



  8. #448
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    Default Re: For the Brits: When will BREXIT referendum happen ?

    As the House of Commons debates the Third Reading of the EU (Withdrawal) Bill, the Brexit process appears to become more and more bizarre. Most people who don't really understand how Parliament works have been confused by fierce debates on amendments to the Bill that either seek to 'derail' Brexit or intend to give Parliament a 'final say' on the Brexit negotiations. On the sidelines, a row about British firms being excluded from contributing to the Galileo space programme confirms that, as Michel Barnier put it 'Brexit means Brexit, everywhere'. The UK, as Theresa May keeps telling us, is leaving the EU, so there is really only the terms of exit to negotiate, everything else must be negotiated after the UK has left.

    Vernon Bogdanor, who for many years as an expert in the Administrative law (not Constitutional as the UK has no Constitution), these days based in London, has provided a useful article that explains why the House of Commons can scrutinize foreign policy but cannot actually negotiate its terms,suggesting that MPs are trying to get too directly involved in matters that are really the preserve of government-
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics...-survival-risk

    But if you think the debates have been tedious, consider the actions of arch Libertarian, pro-Brexit MPs John Redwood and Jacob Rees-Mogg.
    Redwood, who earns £180,000 a year in his 'other job' as Global Strategist for merchant bankers Charles Stanley,
    recently wrote a column of financial advice in which he recommended investors “look further afield” because of the state of the UK economy...

    As Frances Coppola for Forbes put it:
    “To protect his job as an investment manager, he warned his wealthy clients to get their money out before the disaster hits. To me, this smacks of disaster capitalism. Engineer a crash while ensuring your own interests are protected, then clean up when it hits. This is despicable behaviour by a lawmaker.”
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics...g-britain-down

    As for Rees-Mogg, he helped create Someset Capital Management which recently opened a new account in the Republic of Ireland-
    A prospectus for the new business, which was registered in March and will be governed by EU and Irish rules, listed Brexit as one of the risks, as it could cause “considerable uncertainty”.
    And
    Referring to Brexit, the fund’s prospectus said: “During, and possibly after, this period there is likely to be considerable uncertainty as to the position of the UK and the arrangements which will apply to its relationships with the EU and other countries following its withdrawal.
    “This uncertainty may affect other countries in the EU, or elsewhere, if they are considered to be impacted by these events.
    “As [the firm is] based in the UK and a fund’s investments may be located in the UK or the EU, a fund may as a result be affected by the events described above.”
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a8398041.html

    So, if even the most passionate advocates of Brexit have no faith in it, why are we even debating leaving the EU?

    Maybe it is just the UK in 2018: incompetent government, public service funding slashed to the bone, railway timetables in chaos, racist violence increasing, low productivity, declining wages....not the best conditions by which to leave the largest single market in the world...



  9. #449
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    Default Re: For the Brits: When will BREXIT referendum happen ?

    The EU (Withdrawal) Bill was given its Royal Assent on the 26th June 2018 and is now an Act of Parliament, there is less than a year to go before phase one of the Exit begins in March 2019.

    The notice can be accessed here:
    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/t...s-royal-assent



  10. #450
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    Default Re: For the Brits: When will BREXIT referendum happen ?

    The Government met at the Prime Minister's country house, Cheqeurs, to hammer out another final deal on Brexit to present to the EU. The BBC has put together a condensed version of it, and it can be seen here-
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44749993

    Today, 20th July, the chief negotiator for the EU on Brexit, Michael Barnier, said the Chequers paper had workable elements but that it would not be the basis of negotiations -
    "We are not going to negotiate on the basis of the White Paper because that's the British paper but we could use many elements of the White Paper," said Mr Barnier.

    "There's not an awful lot of justification for the EU running the risk of weakening the single market.
    "That is our main asset. There's no justification for us to create additional burdens on business just because the UK wants to leave."
    Mr Barnier questioned the UK's plans for a "common rulebook" for EU-UK trade as it only referred to goods checked at the border, not areas like pesticide use, adding: "How can we protect consumers in Europe?"
    He also questioned whether the plans were workable without additional bureaucracy and said there were "practical problems" about how tariffs would be determined and collected.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44903652

    The Chequers agreement turned out not to be an agreement -what David Davis and Boris Johnson agreed to over the weekend they decided not to agree to days later, mimicking the President of the USA who says one thing on Monday which turns out to be false by Tuesday-, which is in its own way the perfect summary of the whole of the Brexit process: the UK is leaving the EU, but does not know how, and most of the proposals made so far assume the UK will continue to operate together with the EU. Thus: as Theresa May keeps saying, but as her own Chequers agreement makes clear:
    -We are leaving the Single Market, after which we will seek access to the Single Market.
    -We are leaving the Customs Union, after which we will seek a Customs Union arrangement.
    -We are not going to pay substantial sums of money to the EU every year, but we will honour the commitments made to the EU budget beyond the deadline for Article 50, and if they ask us to pay into the Pension Fund for MEPS and UK Eurocrats, yani, maybe...
    -There will no longer be free movement of people between the EU and the UK, but EU and UK citizens resident in the EU and UK on a defined date, will continue to have the right to move freely in the EU and the UK.
    -Decisions of the European Court of Justice will not be applicable to the UK, except for those cases where the UK agrees it makes sense for decisions of the European Court of Justice to judge cases that relate to issues a UK court (ie in England or Scotland or Northern Ireland) cannot make.
    -We will have taken back control of the UK's law-making powers, even though the UK never lost its law making powers, and was legally entitled to veto all or any EU law and regulation.

    The hardline Brexiteers, prompted by the angel of death, America's John Bolton, declared the Chequers agreement a betrayal. Last night on the BBC's Newsnight programme, Tony Blair said it was unrealistic because it was not acceptable to the EU.

    And so it goes on, a Brexit process that offers everything and produces nothing. The Americans have urged the European Research Group to get rid of Theresa May, but the cold reality is that the men in dark suits who organize assassinations in the Conservative Party are still trying to find someone to replace her, while the numbers for a coup still don't add up. In other words, the professional political class looks at Brexit, and sees a burden not an opportunity -they don't want to touch it because whoever touches it, like handling the crust of an Egyptian Mummy, dies in mysterious circumstances unknown even to the Russians.

    Or Theresa May could propose delaying the implementation of Article 50 for 5 years while someone, somewhere, works out how to extricate the UK from the EU.



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