Students Protest Transgender Teen’s Use of Girls’ Locker Room- What Are Her Rights?

[fred41]

People are going to be split on these type of issues, which is why we come up with laws. The state of California already has a law allowing transgender students to pick their locker rooms and bathrooms according to whatever sex they identify with. States such as Nevada and Texas have put forth bills to allow pupils to use locker rooms only according to biological sex. At some point in time, this will probably get to the Supreme Court and that will settle it.

I think changes are slowly coming across this nation of ours with each new generation of people. This is actually a pretty good example of that. Even though there is a protest...this is a very small, rural area and it seems that, for the most part, it's all still pretty civil...and Lila even has a group of supporters.

For people that think Lila is full of shit, and that maybe she just wants to get her jollies off from changing in a female locker room, try googling her name in the image section. Sure, she doesn't wear the best of wigs and she doesn't have the chic urban no how of expertly applying make-up, but if any of you think this is a boy trying to fool his way in - then I suggest you try gallivanting around a rural area wearing a wig, makeup, a dress and weighing what looks like 110 lbs soaking wet...all day long, every day... I dare you.
None of us know her personally, but it seems that of the folks in the school district who do, in fact, know her personally...no one is really arguing that Lila believes she is a woman. I don't think it's a head fake. Hell, even if Lila was an insane, delusional homosexual who just likes wearing dresses and voguing to Madonna songs, there is still obviously no threat to the precious girls made of sugar and spice. I'm sure they have a greater chance of their closeted lesbian locker mates ogling them than Lila.

The real problem that I have with some of the comments that were used by folks in the various news articles I have now read on this, is that eventually a person just absolutely has to use their Christianity as a reason of protest. My belief is that if you have a problem with Lila changing with biological girls on scientific or personal held moral or ethical beliefs...fine. But if you're going to bring Christ into every argument, then I suggest you put your kids in parochial schools, which is probably what Jesus would suggest...

...which is just another way for me to segueway into the fact that I am happy that they locked that ignorant, self centered cunt clerk in Kentucky, Kim Davis, the fuck up for refusing to follow the law she swore to uphold. Ignorant bitch.

[broncofan]

http://www.pollingreport.com/civil.htm

I thought this was interesting. I said I thought same sex marriage might not carry majority support if people in the U.S. voted on it. However, it appears that the majority of people do actually support it. If you take a look at the Pew data, it actually has polling data dating back to 1996, so you can see what the sea change has been. Would have been quite bold if our Supreme Court had decided that banning gay marriage was unconstitutional back when only 27% of people supported it. Will be interesting to see if the next twenty years brings about the same kinds of cultural changes.

And I agree, religion can be a guide to one's own behavior but shouldn't give someone a right to obstruct other people's rights. And as the legislation Fred has referred...where would you rather live, California or Texas?

[Lester316]

I've looked back over the last few posts and seeing as I'm not here specifically to argue or agree with anyone particular I'll make my stance on the issue clear; personally I think I am simply advocating common sense but some folks may disagree. I should preface my thoughts by pointing out I am in the UK - I find the U.S. legal system as mentioned by others to be overly complicated and fractured in it's nature which is a hindrance to finding solutions in cases like this.

I'll start by saying as far as I am able to find this constitutes current UK guidelines for bathroom/changing/toilet facilities in schools so maybe provides context for my opinion and the difference over here to the U.S.: 'Provide safe toilet arrangements for the child, for instance use of a staff facility, a disabled toilet labeled unisex etc.'. That might sound overly simply but reality is transgender students in UK schools that have come out as such may number anything from barely a few to zero in most UK schools, no local authority is going to start purpose building specific facilities until there is a genuine need.

Now I've read people's thoughts on things such as Lila is much less likely to be a 'threat' sexually to girls in the locker room than their lesbian classmates, this is one of the points which is in itself confused as the debate is not one of sexual identity (ie: who you are attracted to) it is one of gender identity. I know there is some cross over involved but that is the point we should start from.

The place is a school; it is for children. Whether they be male, female or if they were genetically born as one but identify as the other. Locker rooms are areas for changing clothes, having showers and using the toilet - it would be a financial impossibility for any normal school to provide individual personal areas for each child so using common sense we segregate by using nature as a guide. Of course transgender students don't fit that system but they want to (rightly so it is their right to be who they are not what genetics forced them to be) - the point here of course goes back to the fact it's a school. Unless there are procedures and laws I am unaware of transgender students cannot fully transition legally until they are an adult therefore a genetic male who identifies as female (or vice-versa) will not be physically how they want to be until after they leave school.

Providing an alternative locker room facility is the only sensible solution to this issue. It may not be ideal in the eyes of the transgender student but it is the reality. Forcing other students to share with someone who is genetically a different gender to them is not fair (or indeed suitable); even if the majority were understanding and accepting, some may not be and thinking logically the third locker room protects both those students and the transgender student from actions/accusations that could come from either party.

Now sexual feelings, who is attracted to whom and all sorts has been mentioned before; the reality is there are all sorts of combinations out there. Students could be straight male, straight female, gay male, lesbian, they could be a male to female transgender student who finds boys attractive but they could also identify as female and lesbian - I could go on for ages. It would be ludicrous to segregate changing areas that way so we stick with what is simply and logistically doable.

Ultimately there has to be give and take on all sides; sometimes individuals have to settle for less than an equal balance in that as practicality is just as much as an issue as observing everyone's rights is. Of course schools could just knock the walls down in between the locker rooms and create one big multi-gender area but the reality is that wouldn't be fair or practical either and imagine the stink parents would kick up about that.

As stated before I respect Lila's bravery in coming out as transgender at a young age (as I do everyone else who comes out in any way at any age) but she has a locker room she can use and honestly it just isn't fair or practical to make female students share with her so it doesn't hurt her feelings. If we allocated locker rooms/changing areas/ toilets based on the feelings system and not a practical (and as fair as we can make it) system then every school might need a personal space for every pupil.

[DeezNuts515]

Dude, I can write very well, I am here to have fun most the time, and when I type out of term, its because I am having fun. <-------You see how well constructed that sentence is?

Actually, that's a poorly constructed run-on sentence.

[jamesedwards]

I agree with some of what you said. Could you point me to the person/s who mentioned Christ? I didn't know someone used Christ as an excuse.
The clerk broke the law oh well, she gotta face the consequences on her part.

Hence, you support the clerk being locked up for what she did, now think about this. Lila violated the rights of the girls, Lila was given a place to dress then Lila broke the rules of the school and went into the girl's locker room and sent them into a shocking frenzy. So are you saying Lila is wrong or right here? I am going to keep it simple, I am saying Lila is wrong!

The real problem that I have with some of the comments that were used by folks in the various news articles I have now read on this, is that eventually a person just absolutely has to use their Christianity as a reason of protest. My belief is that if you have a problem with Lila changing with biological girls on scientific or personal held moral or ethical beliefs...fine. But if you're going to bring Christ into every argument, then I suggest you put your kids in parochial schools, which is probably what Jesus would suggest...

...which is just another way for me to segueway into the fact that I am happy that they locked that ignorant, self centered cunt clerk in Kentucky, Kim Davis, the fuck up for refusing to follow the law she swore to uphold. Ignorant bitch.

[jamesedwards]

Actually, that's a poorly constructed run-on sentence.

Really how so? Again what does that have to do with the thread? Here we go again! Are you worried more about my typing or about the girls being violated?
Do you have typephobia?

[jamesedwards]

Fucking brilliant!!! Now that's how you post looking at all the facts! This is exactly what I was saying. Lila was catered to, accommodated, and Lila took it upon Lila's self to basically disrespect these girls. These are young girls they are not full grown women! People don't understand the trauma this could put them through.

Can you imagine some young female goes to her locker and Lila is standing there ass naked, she looks in shock and runs! That could scare her for life, that one little incident. It seems like to me a lot of people don't give a shit about the girls rights, or their emotional being and not looking at the other things they have to deal with along the way.

1. These girls have to worry about if someone is going to shoot up the school and weapons.
2. Drugs!
3. Rape!
4. Bullying!
5. health
6. getting the right education.
7. Now Lila.

All this shit these girls have to deal with and now its TG's added on to the list. When in the fuck will the girls get justice?

When are we going to protect the girls, they didn't ask for this shit. You walk out of school because of bad weather, you walk out of school if you're sick, etc, not some shit like this. Parents need to keep their children out as long as they can and fight the fuck back, harder than ever!
These are not grown ass women folk these are young innocent girls!

I've looked back over the last few posts and seeing as I'm not here specifically to argue or agree with anyone particular I'll make my stance on the issue clear; personally I think I am simply advocating common sense but some folks may disagree. I should preface my thoughts by pointing out I am in the UK - I find the U.S. legal system as mentioned by others to be overly complicated and fractured in it's nature which is a hindrance to finding solutions in cases like this.

I'll start by saying as far as I am able to find this constitutes current UK guidelines for bathroom/changing/toilet facilities in schools so maybe provides context for my opinion and the difference over here to the U.S.: 'Provide safe toilet arrangements for the child, for instance use of a staff facility, a disabled toilet labeled unisex etc.'. That might sound overly simply but reality is transgender students in UK schools that have come out as such may number anything from barely a few to zero in most UK schools, no local authority is going to start purpose building specific facilities until there is a genuine need.

Now I've read people's thoughts on things such as Lila is much less likely to be a 'threat' sexually to girls in the locker room than their lesbian classmates, this is one of the points which is in itself confused as the debate is not one of sexual identity (ie: who you are attracted to) it is one of gender identity. I know there is some cross over involved but that is the point we should start from.

The place is a school; it is for children. Whether they be male, female or if they were genetically born as one but identify as the other. Locker rooms are areas for changing clothes, having showers and using the toilet - it would be a financial impossibility for any normal school to provide individual personal areas for each child so using common sense we segregate by using nature as a guide. Of course transgender students don't fit that system but they want to (rightly so it is their right to be who they are not what genetics forced them to be) - the point here of course goes back to the fact it's a school. Unless there are procedures and laws I am unaware of transgender students cannot fully transition legally until they are an adult therefore a genetic male who identifies as female (or vice-versa) will not be physically how they want to be until after they leave school.

Providing an alternative locker room facility is the only sensible solution to this issue. It may not be ideal in the eyes of the transgender student but it is the reality. Forcing other students to share with someone who is genetically a different gender to them is not fair (or indeed suitable); even if the majority were understanding and accepting, some may not be and thinking logically the third locker room protects both those students and the transgender student from actions/accusations that could come from either party.


As stated before I respect Lila's bravery in coming out as transgender at a young age (as I do everyone else who comes out in any way at any age) but she has a locker room she can use and honestly it just isn't fair or practical to make female students share with her so it doesn't hurt her feelings. If we allocated locker rooms/changing areas/ toilets based on the feelings system and not a practical (and as fair as we can make it) system then every school might need a personal space for every pupil.

[jamesedwards]

The US period need to fix their laws, the blur of laws is ridiculous to the point no one knows shit! I mean wtf are they doing? The Govt.

[DeezNuts515]

Really how so? Again what does that have to do with the thread? Here we go again! Are you worried more about my typing or about the girls being violated?
Do you have typephobia?

It's relevant to this thread because it's a post contained within said thread. You were the one who felt the need to point out you can construct a sentence properly, but have failed to deliver. You have absolutely no grasp of punctuation. The fact you you began your retort with no punctuation after the word "really" underscores this. You were using that word as either an interrogative or an interjection, both of which require immediate punctuation.

It's not that serious. You have proven time and again you are an angry, blathering individual, who doesn't appear to have an IQ which reaches three digits. Not everyone is lucky enough to have a fully functioning brain.

[Laphroaig]

It's relevant to this thread because it's a post contained within said thread. You were the one who felt the need to point out you can construct a sentence properly, but have failed to deliver. You have absolutely no grasp of punctuation. The fact you you began your retort with no punctuation after the word "really" underscores this. You were using that word as either an interrogative or an interjection, both of which require immediate punctuation.

It's not that serious. You have proven time and again you are an angry, blathering individual, who doesn't appear to have an IQ which reaches three digits. Not everyone is lucky enough to have a fully functioning brain.

Agreed, what James fails to realise is that his poor language skills will always detract from the point he's trying to make. The irony is that he's admitted that his fake ghetto/slang persona is a "lifestyle choice" on his part. He also tends to increase the font size in his posts every so often, like an over excited, attention grabbing little kid.

James, you still haven't replied to my post in the other thread showing why homosexuality is natural and NOT a "lifestyle choice". Presumably you're trying to ignore it because yet again you've made a complete idiot of yourself...

As an example of how distracting your poor language is, you can't even swear correctly. The word is DAMN, this is what a DAM is you cretin.