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  1. #311
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    Default Re: So what do you Brits make of Trump ?

    The Middle East is a complicated place. My roommate went there on business and they were chopping off body parts of sinners in the City Square. It's like FDR warming up to Uncle Joe Stalin at Yalta. It's a case of bad, or total war. Lucky we've got Trump all over it...…..


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  2. #312
    filghy2 Silver Poster
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    Default Re: So what do you Brits make of Trump ?

    I think it's pretty clear what is going to happen.

    1. The Saudis will pin the blame for Khassogi's killing on a few 'rogue' operatives in their intelligence service.
    2. Erdogan will extract some favours from the US and Saudis as the price of Turkey going along with the cover-up. https://www.politico.com/magazine/st...-murder-221609
    3. US intelligence pointing to MBS's complicity will be ignored and covered up. https://www.politico.com/story/2018/...-arabia-913238
    4. They'll all hope the furore blows over and the Republicans in Congress will do little to back up their words with action, as usual. https://www.vox.com/2018/10/18/17996...hner-trump-nyt



  3. #313
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    Default Re: So what do you Brits make of Trump ?

    Quote Originally Posted by filghy2 View Post
    I think it's pretty clear what is going to happen.
    Indeed, so no surprises so far. Having insisted Khashoggi left the Consulate alive, the Saudis now say he did die inside, and have found excuses and culprits in senior positions, though it remains to be seen if they will be put on trial and executed. It gives the President his way out of what some are calling the most serious foreign policy crisis of the Presidency so far, though I don't see it as being that serious. For the simple reason that the President and the Saudis don't care if Khashoggi is alive, dead, a hero, a martyr or any other words you want to conjure up, like 'forgotten' which they hope will be soon. As for violence against journalists, apparently it is one way of getting his support and winning an election.

    It is all about the money, and the strategic balance which has consolidated the US-Saudi alliance over the years, and which remains fixated on Iran as the 'real enemy'.

    That said, we don't yet know the full impact in Saudi Arabia because while Salman has moved to ring-fence MBS from direct criticism, MBS's reckless actions will give some influence to those Royals who hate him and who also have the ear of the King. One could also argue that Saudi Arabia is more vulnerable to divisions within the Royal Family rather than political opposition across the Kingdom which is easier to crush. It is too early to say if MBS will retain his supreme position or be forced to share it with another Prince.

    The other Prince, Jared Kushner must also now be in a weaker position, having built his so-called 'Middle East policy' around the spurious modernizing MBS, an unofficial alliance between Saudi Arabia and Israel, and the alliance with the UAE. The key policy options have been to confront Iran, directly and through its closest friends, Qatar and Syria; to starve the Palestinians into submission by pretending they don't exist -fuelled by the belief most Arab Sultans and Kings have given up on them anyway, which may be true, but ignores a deep reservoir of solidarity for Palestinians among ordinary Arabs; and to see off the 'Houthi' rebels in Yemen believed to be supported by Iran, but primarily because they represent a destabilizing force in the South with the added frisson that by definition the 'Houthi' are not Wahabi, being a 1990s offshoot of the Zaydi Islam that has held sway in this part of the world since the schism in Islam that followed Muhammad's death, although the Zaydi are the Shi'a closest to mainstream Sunni, which the Wahabi are not, being extremists.

    The US, like Britain and France, has formed alliances with savage dictators for over a century, usually justified in strategic terms, for example during the Cold War, for economic reasons or both. The US has paid the price for taking sides in the Middle East in the 1967 War, as a result of which various Arab forces have attacked it in the region and inside the US itself. The US has been spared the wrath of the Africans who watched their families and friends slaughtered or imprisoned and tortured by the US-baked Mobutu or through proxies in Angola and Mozambique, though American indifference has seen China become the most favoured nation for domestic investment on the continent, so that the US has lost out on that.

    Closer to home, the Caravan of Desperate Hondurans revives the bitter legacy of the USA's choices which supported Military Dictatorship across Central and Southern America, dictatorships that enabled Big Men to help themselves to the national wealth while domestic economic development was neglected and the 'shadow economy' (as if it were not seen!) of narcotics became the next best option but generated a culture of criminality and violence to the extent that in a recent survey, the Worst Place in the World to be a Woman was judged to be, not Pakistan or Afghanistan, but Honduras. It may be a desperate option, but if the choice is between life and death, most people will choose life, just as so many Americans have chosen to puff and sniff on the narcotics that drive the violence that drives people out of the country in despair.

    The decisions made by the President today, may result in something terrible, not now, but in 10 years time. Who knows? As usual, the problem is being kicked down the road so that someone else will have to deal with it. Maybe that is the art of the deal, to make a mess of a situation, walk away, and hand the solution -and the costs- to someone else.


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  4. #314
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    Default Re: So what do you Brits make of Trump ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stavros View Post
    ….The decisions made by the President today, may result in something terrible, not now, but in 10 years time...
    You mean like borrowing 2 trillion to give to big business? Or eliminating regulations that curb global warming?
    There are reasons my generation skipped a Great Depression, or a World War, you have to take serious steps and pay for them. You need the State Department stocked with our best and brightest. You need NATO.
    There was an article in the "STYLE" section this morning that said in an interview with Larry King in 2004, a phone caller asked Donald how he dealt with stress. He had just started "The Apprentice" and with episodes entitled like "ethics schmethics" he said it was alarming to be so famous and yet there were still earthquakes in Pakistan that killed 500,00 people, so he to cope he'd just tell himself IT DOESN'T MATTER. WE'LL SEE. That works OK when your Dad is a multi-millionaire, but not so great for the President of the United States. Two years into Lincoln's presidency he had aged twenty years, Trump is still doing stand up comedy at his rallies. It's well known that Republicans like to Win, Democrats like to be Right. One day some Historian or Psychiatrist will define Trump, and how he became THE spokesman for 40% of the country. Actually, I guess it's really 20% of the country, half don't vote because they think it doesn't matter. Obama was right when he said Trump is not the problem, Trump is a symptom of the problem. I don't think Khashoggi feels that way, and we all need to hope people don't start dying because of Trump. Let's hope Democrats turn that hope into votes, and the Republicans don't rig the voting machines.


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  5. #315
    filghy2 Silver Poster
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    Default Re: So what do you Brits make of Trump ?

    It looks like Erdogan is not going to play along, or maybe the Saudis refused to pay his price. Apart from the brazen cynicism of it, the incredible thing about this episode is how amateurishly hamfisted the Saudis have been. The guy impersonating Khashoggi leaving the consulate even had the wrong shoes. Even Trump seems to have realised belatedly that nobody else was buying the Saudi's story and calling it credible was a really bad look.



  6. #316
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    Default Re: So what do you Brits make of Trump ?

    Smarkets.com are offering 17/10 on Trump being re-elected in 2020 ! At the moment; sounds like a license to print money to me?
    You won't find better for sure. Think I'll have some of that instead of the football later.



  7. #317
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    Default Re: So what do you Brits make of Trump ?

    How does that Neil Young song go?

    There is a wall round San Antonio
    All my troubles were there...

    https://www.indy100.com/article/dona...ntonio-8737061


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  8. #318
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    Default Re: So what do you Brits make of Trump ?

    Perhaps now is the time for the Christian pastors who give the President the latest from God Central, to practice what they preach?

    Donald Trump is the living embodiment of the seven deadly sins – pride, greed, lust, gluttony, wrath, envy and sloth – and he is the precise obverse of the seven virtues as enunciated by Pope Gregory in 590 AD: chastity, temperance, charity, diligence, patience, kindness and humility.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...ite-house-2020



  9. #319
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    Default Re: So what do you Brits make of Trump ?

    Can someone confirm that in the US a subpoena is no longer a legal instrument, that the President is right, that anyone issued with one from the redundant Congress can simply ignore it because Congress is a redundant, useless obstacle to the will of HIM?

    10,000 lies, and nobody cares. It is now normal. Funny old world innit?

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...ouse-oversight

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...ims-fact-check



  10. #320
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    Default Re: So what do you Brits make of Trump ?

    I know its good for a laugh, but the man claims to be President.

    "I meet and talk to 'foreign governments' every day. I just met with the Queen of England (U.K.), the Prince of Whales, the P.M. of the United Kingdom, the P.M. of Ireland, the President of France and the President of Poland. We talked about 'Everything!' Should I immediately call the FBI about those calls and meetings? How ridiculous!"

    No, but maybe call your doctor.


    Last edited by Stavros; 06-13-2019 at 05:54 PM.

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