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  1. #21
    Senior Member Professional Poster peejaye's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Curious Case of Alexander Litvinenko

    Jack shit will happen. No proof of Russia being involved, just "Establishment spin" & speculation from a frail weak old woman, you call our Leader, trying to get a grip & sound tough when she is almost broken & soon to be replaced! All Tory spin to dominate the news instead of informing us what dirty tricks they are up to next!
    & to quote the fucking BBC, don't you ever give up? Bigger fucking liars than the Tories themselves.



  2. #22
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    Default Re: The Curious Case of Alexander Litvinenko

    Quote Originally Posted by peejaye View Post
    Jack shit will happen. No proof of Russia being involved, just "Establishment spin" .
    There's evidence not absolute proof, but common sense also says it was Russia. There is precedent for Russia using exotic methods of killing people on British soil. There is the fact that it was a Russian spy who was poisoned. There's the fact that the poison is exotic enough that there are a limited number of sources for it. Surely the people didn't poison themselves?

    Who do you think poisoned Sergei Skripal and why?



  3. #23
    Senior Member Professional Poster peejaye's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Curious Case of Alexander Litvinenko

    I agree with everything you say but as you say; there is no proof, just strong speculation. Without proof what can be done? Would you send a man to prison without proof? The media are so corrupt in this country more and more people are starting to disbelieve them as each day passes by! Especially Sky & the BBC.



  4. #24
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    Default Re: The Curious Case of Alexander Litvinenko

    Quote Originally Posted by peejaye View Post
    I agree with everything you say but as you say; there is no proof, just strong speculation. Without proof what can be done? Would you send a man to prison without proof? The media are so corrupt in this country more and more people are starting to disbelieve them as each day passes by! Especially Sky & the BBC.
    There's the proof you require to condemn someone and then the proof that's required to investigate and take a good close look at one party, which has surely been met. We know someone did it. Russia is more likely to have than any other individual party by far. It cannot hurt to say out loud what everyone is thinking. I imagine if there are to be sanctions or some other punitive action taken against Russia, there would be a searching process to hear all the facts and be convinced to some reasonable degree it was Russia.

    At this point, if your government asks serious questions of the Russians and there's evasiveness and other bullshit, that should be enough. Just my take.


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    Last edited by broncofan; 03-13-2018 at 05:16 PM.

  5. #25
    Senior Member Professional Poster peejaye's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Curious Case of Alexander Litvinenko

    This country is nothing to Russia. They must laugh their cocks off at the obsession we have with their country & this little "tin-pot" place certainly cannot harm them. There are plenty of Russian billionaires living in Mayfair & Belgravia in London & what our "Correspondent of the Establishment" forgot to mention is; The Tories have received 820,000 in donations from Russia this year alone, of course, the Tories are insisting it's not from the Kremlin so that's ok. Embarrasses me to be British with this lot.



  6. #26
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    Default Re: The Curious Case of Alexander Litvinenko

    Quote Originally Posted by peejaye View Post
    This country is nothing to Russia. They must laugh their cocks off at the obsession we have with their country & this little "tin-pot" place certainly cannot harm them.
    You guys are obsessed with Russia? They murdered a subversive with nuclear material on your streets and now another one of their spies ends up dead from a poison that a limited number of places produce, one being Russia. What would qualify as a healthy suspicion? I don't imagine the Russians see your country as a tin-pot place or anything of the sort and the Russians have wrought absolute havoc on Europe and the U.S. by interfering with elections, and murdering journalists, politicians and former spies.

    Do you think the Russians have interfered with free elections because they don't think it will work or that they don't have interests to further that warrant the risk of alienation? Do you think all these Russians hostile to their regime end up dead by accident? You may have your differences with the Tories, but I would hope you all see foreign enemies taking hostile actions on your soil as a bigger problem than partisan politics.


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    Last edited by broncofan; 03-13-2018 at 05:42 PM.

  7. #27
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    Default Re: The Curious Case of Alexander Litvinenko

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...P=share_btn_tw

    I'm definitely not rushing to judgment on this one, just posting it as something of interest right now.



  8. #28
    Senior Member Professional Poster peejaye's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Curious Case of Alexander Litvinenko

    I would just point out that I was with a Russian girl for 7 years visiting regularly between 2000-2007 so I have experiences over there. That's why I laugh so much at most of the propaganda from the far right.
    You give them lots of credit for interfering with all these elections? I wish I were half as clever as them!



  9. #29
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    Default Re: The Curious Case of Alexander Litvinenko

    Quote Originally Posted by peejaye View Post
    Jack shit will happen. No proof of Russia being involved, just "Establishment spin" & speculation from a frail weak old woman, you call our Leader, trying to get a grip & sound tough when she is almost broken & soon to be replaced! All Tory spin to dominate the news instead of informing us what dirty tricks they are up to next!
    & to quote the fucking BBC, don't you ever give up? Bigger fucking liars than the Tories themselves.
    Blimey mate, Theresa May is 61 and you call her an 'old woman'? Maybe wait until she is 80?

    In 2009 a government security document leaked to the Telegraph revealed that HMG has identified spies operating in the UK from Russia, China, Iran, Syria, North Korea, France and Germany and 13 other countries. Most are focused on commercial espionage-

    In today's high-tech world, the intelligence requirements of a number of countries now include new communications technologies, IT, genetics, aviation, lasers, optics, electronics and many other fields. Intelligence services, therefore, are targeting commercial enterprises far more than in the past.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...d-Germany.html

    Who else could have made the nerve agent responsible for the attack in Salisbury? The answer could be any advanced industrial power, except that the production of chemical weapons is illegal in international law, while precursors may be made for non-military use and then assembled for such uses -but that leaves the question, why? On this basis one could surmise the US, Japan, North Korea, China and the Ukraine have the expertise. A lot will depend on the precise identity of the agent if it can be done but that raises the question: why this man living in the UK and why this mode of attack?

    What reason would the US, North Korea or say, Syria have for murdering an ex-military Russian intelligence officer and his daughter? We know that in theory Syria agreed to dismantle and destroy its chemical weapons facilities and stockpiles under the agreement between the USA and Russia in 2013 but that there have been claims the Syrians did not comply; or, even if they did, they still have access to chemical weapons purchased from North Korea, and that these are being used to attack Ghouta east of Damascus which was also the place attacked in 2013 that led to the aforementioned agreement. What would stop Russia purchasing its own stocks from North Korea and more to the point, why is Russia violating the 2013 agreement by not taking action against its Syria ally when it uses chemicals weapons on Ghouta?
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23876085

    Plenty of retired spies and ex-government officials live in the UK, from North Korea to Nigeria, yet the list of murders is Russian, with yet another Russian -Nikolai Gluushkov, ex-friend of the late Boris Berezovsky- found dead in his London home yesterday, cause of death so far unknown.
    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...is-london-home

    Think about it: Russians, chemical agents, revenge = Source + agency + motive. That the attacks have been incompetent may suggest to some that these are amateurs, except that chemical weapons are notorious for being volatile and unreliable which is why they have not been standard weapons of war since they were first made illegal in the 1920s. Thus, if it was not the Russians attempting to murder their own, who was it?

    On a wider level, it marks the continuation of the breakdown of international rules-based order in which agreements are cast aside for an 'anything goes' attitude. We know that Putin feels betrayed by the West for the manner in which it was -in his view- deceived into supporting regime change in Libya as it became; yet even before this when she became Secretary of State in 2009 Hillary Clinton stated explicitly that she wanted the US to hit the 'reset' button with Russia, just as David Cameron tried, and both of them failed to convince Putin to maintain Russia's open economy and form closer relations with the 'west'. That the west still claims to need Russia's help in the 'fight against terrorism' makes one wonder when we will accept that this relationship is not working.

    But how to respond effectively remains a key question to which I have no long-term answer.


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  10. #30
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    Default Re: The Curious Case of Alexander Litvinenko

    Quote Originally Posted by peejaye View Post
    This country is nothing to Russia.
    Come on Peejaye, the UK is a major part of the NATO alliance the Russians would love to see dissolved along with the EU; the UK is a source of money laundering for Russian millionaires and billionaires as well as being one of their favourite places to live; the Anglo-Dutch oil company Shell, and the Anglo-American BP have both been major investors in Russia and have retail outlets in the densely populated areas of Western Russia; the UK remains a founder member of the UN and a permanent member of the Security Council.


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