Page 2 of 14 FirstFirst 123456712 ... LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 134
  1. #11
    Senior Member Platinum Poster
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    8,335

    Default Re: The Curious Case of Alexander Litvinenko

    Quote Originally Posted by sukumvit boy View Post
    Two prior attempts to kill him failed.
    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-30994242
    Yes -but why Polonium 210?



  2. #12
    5 Star Poster sukumvit boy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    los angeles area
    Posts
    2,019

    Default Re: The Curious Case of Alexander Litvinenko

    As you pointed out they almost got away with it.



  3. #13
    5 Star Poster sukumvit boy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    los angeles area
    Posts
    2,019

    Default Re: The Curious Case of Alexander Litvinenko

    Because P-210 is an alpha emmiter and not likely to be detected by the usual tools such as a Geiger counter.
    http://www.slate.com/articles/news_a...whodunnit.html



  4. #14
    Senior Member Platinum Poster
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    8,335

    Default Re: The Curious Case of Alexander Litvinenko

    It just seems to me to be such a risky way to killing someone, when there are other methods. If you follow these things it is now being suggested that a Russian 'supergrass' Alexander Perepilichnyy could have been murdered in the UK because he had "explosive" information in an investigation into a Russian money laundering scheme. Moreover, and this is the key point:

    Traces of the highly toxic Gelsemium plant, which is found only in remote regions of China., were found in Mr Perepilichnyy’s stomach but the inquest is waiting for more detailed tests..


    Again, if they want him dead, why not just shoot him? It all seems so needlessly elaborate, unless there is some sort of message in the use of deadly poisons...

    article is here:
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...itvinenko.html



  5. #15
    5 Star Poster sukumvit boy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    los angeles area
    Posts
    2,019


    1 out of 1 members liked this post.
    Last edited by sukumvit boy; 03-07-2018 at 01:53 AM.

  6. #16
    Senior Member Platinum Poster
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    8,335

    Default Re: The Curious Case of Alexander Litvinenko

    The signs are there but no proof as yet...a case of 'watch this space'...



  7. #17
    5 Star Poster sukumvit boy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    los angeles area
    Posts
    2,019

    Default Re: The Curious Case of Alexander Litvinenko

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	putin sochi-poison-12.jpg 
Views:	6 
Size:	61.4 KB 
ID:	1062440Click image for larger version. 

Name:	putin sochi-poison-17.jpg 
Views:	9 
Size:	58.8 KB 
ID:	1062441



  8. #18
    Senior Member Platinum Poster
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    8,335

    Default Re: The Curious Case of Alexander Litvinenko

    Below is a link to an assessment by the Telegraph which uses sources such as Anthony Glees and Nigel West, two seasoned writers on spying for many years whose work should not always be taken seriously. For example, Glees claims

    “it is clear that either directly or indirectly Sergei Skripal would have been known to Christopher Steele” and added that “anybody who feels that Trump was humiliated and dissed by an MI6 officer may feel that getting at one of his agents is justified. That could be the Russian security services.”

    But it is not clear at all, as Glees has not provided any such evidence. Skripal has given lectures to various military colleges as a former officer in Russian Military Intelligence (ie not the FSB) but unless Glees knows something we don't how can it be proven, as is also the case with the Buzzfeed linked which claims Russia has bumped off 14 people in the UK it didn't like?
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...uncomfortable/

    Richard Norton-Taylor also with years of reporting on intelligence matters for the Guardian raises the question of what the UK's response to Russia should be if it were found to be the cause. It ranges from the maximum breaking diplomatic relations to selective sanctions, with Norton-Taylor arguing that it is when countries like the UK and Russia stop engaging on a regular basis that actions like this take place, and thus argues for more dialogue at the intelligence level, not less.
    https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...sergei-skripal

    In fact the UK has severed diplomatic relations before. In 1980 the UK severed all but nominal relations with Iran following the siege of the Iranian Embassy in London, so it wasn't a full break; Iran severed diplomatic relations with the UK when it refused to take action over Salman Rushie and his novel The Satanic Verses in 1989 at a time when the British staff in the Tehran embassy had been evacuated. Relations were restored in 1999 but when the British Embassy was stormed in 2011 relations were again put into deep freeze but diplomatic relations not entirely severed. On that occasion sanctions included a ban on banking relations between the UK and Iran. But as an Iranian academic argued, while various actions against Iran hurt its economy and isolated it from states that had the power to attack it, the moves also isolated the UK because the EU did not respond in concert, thus giving more influence in Iran to France and Germany both of whom were seen to be less in tune with the USA as the UK.
    http://www.e-ir.info/2012/01/23/down...my-of-a-folly/

    On the other hand, in the case of Litvinenko we are dealing with murder using nuclear weapons material, and possibly attempted murder and there is a case of the UK severing diplomatic relations over attempted murder. It happened in 1986 when Nezar Hindawi was found guilty of planting a bomb in an El AL airline in London (it did not go off) in 1985. With evidence that Hindawi was working for the Syrian Government the UK severed relations with Syria that were not restored until 2006.

    It is an interesting but difficult choice, and what evidence there is suggests that any actions the UK takes would be limited and that the most effective actions would be collective, for example involving the EU, the USA, UK allies in the Commonwealth, and it seems unlikely at this time that powerful players like the US and China would join, leaving the UK in the increasingly weak position it finds itself in due to Brexit.


    1 out of 1 members liked this post.

  9. #19
    5 Star Poster sukumvit boy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    los angeles area
    Posts
    2,019



  10. #20
    Senior Member Platinum Poster
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    8,335

    Default Re: The Curious Case of Alexander Litvinenko

    The UK govt has established that Skripal, his daughter and others have been poisoned by a nerve agent that is part of the Novichuk, military-grade nerve agents first developed in the USSR in the 1970s. It has been argued that whoever carried out the attack may have brought different precursors into the UK and that it is not until these are joined together that they become lethal. Moreover, because the impact of the agent can take up to 18 hours to take effect it is not known precisely where or when it was administered, one theory being that if in powder form it may have been infiltrated into the Skripal family car and triggered by the ignition of the engine when starting up.

    The likelihood that agents of the Russian government or FSB were involved has risen owing to the source of the nerve agents, and the identification of Skripal as the victim, and is thus similar to the murder of Alexander Litvinenko in the relative incompetence with which the murder weapon was used, but also its rare source making it inevitable that when identified it would narrow down the murderers to just one country.

    As to the response, it is widely believed this will take the form of diplomatic expulsions and sanctions on individual Russians as well as some financial limitations and possibly the removal of RT's license to broadcast in the UK. That the UK needs a co-ordinated response from the EU exposes how weak it is after Brexit -sympathetic noises from France, but muted from Germany- as well as NATO, Tillerson claiming Russia is involved, his boss not even bothering to tweet.

    But if the UK wanted a dramatic response that would jolt the Russians -who will retaliate in some form- breaking diplomatic relations would be an option, much as it did to Syria over the attempt to blow up an El Al aeroplane in London in 1986, but this has apparently been ruled out already. The other jolt would be for the UK to withdraw the England football team from this summer's FIFA World Cup competition, where we already know Russian hooligans have declared unofficial war on England supporters though it is hard to believe the Russian state would allow street fights of the kind that took place during the Euros. But apparently that is also not on the table though officials of the England team will not go to Russia. In fact, the UK should persuade FIFA to remove the World Cup from Russia and ask the EU to host it instead. Even at this late stage, it would not be hard to organize it across the EU for the first time, and the final could be played at Wembley Stadium in London, the Russia team having been suspended. This would deeply hurt the Russians from the State down to the citizens looking to benefit from the competition, but the sums of money involved are so great the people who stand to benefit most will give Putin a free pass on the Salisbury attack (which so far has not led to a death) just as the other crimes Putin has committed from the Crimea and the Ukraine to Syria go unpunished.

    In the end this is all about money, the investments made in Russia by certain powers; the investment made by Russia in certain countries, and individuals. The little guys, that is, you and me, are of no importance, be we living or dead.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-43377698


    Last edited by Stavros; 03-13-2018 at 10:08 AM.

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 2
    Last Post: 03-08-2014, 04:44 PM
  2. The Curious Case of the Spook in a Bag
    By Stavros in forum General Discussion
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 03-31-2012, 03:38 AM
  3. The Curious Case of Benjamin Button
    By Legend in forum General Discussion
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 07-21-2008, 08:03 AM
  4. New Girl Kara Alexander
    By karaalextv in forum General Discussion
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 02-02-2007, 02:09 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •