About that flag...you know, that one

[Stavros]

It is the Fourth of July, so I expect most of our Americans friends are out on the deck with family and friends, tucking into something delicious...best wishes to the USA, and bon appetit!

Now, about that flag, you know which one I am talking about.
Go on, America tell us what you think, because you know you want to!

And no, I don't mean this one:

[Ben in LA]

When "they" started associating themselves with it, things like the so-called true intent of the flag "changed" a bit. Say what you want, put your spin on things...but this cannot be denied.

[Ben in LA]

Then again, we DO have folks like this...smdh...

[broncofan]

My opinion probably won't surprise anyone. We have a reasonably unique heritage in this country of having treated a race of people as chattel. When the ostensible owners of people were threatened with the liberation of their chattel, they attempted to secede and waged the bloodiest war in our nation's history. For me, the confederate flag represents that secessionist movement, namely because that is the flag they flew in support of their treason. Treason, based on a desire to deny human rights to a race of people, with hundreds of thousands dead as a result. I understand there are other proposed causes of the Civil War, but I believe preservation of slavery was the primary one.

But what special meaning does it have to those who claim it represents their tradition? To me, it is a very poorly disguised celebration of racism.

[Stavros]

I was aware that there was something called the 'Stars and Bars' but when I briefly looked into this, what struck me was that one flag is identified as the flag of the Confederacy, whereas the other one -yes, that one- is described as Robert E. Lee's battle flag. To me this suggests that the symbol of the latter is that it is used when waging war on a battlefield, that it is associated with violence rather than, say, politics. For that reason I can understand why so many people object to it and its associations, as they were during the Civil War, and the way in which the flag has since been used in films and in political movements.

One odd side effect of this, I have read, is that tv stations have decided not to re-run old episodes of The Dukes of Hazzard. I recall watching this rubbish programme with the sound off, but only because of Daisy, and believe it or not, because there were two transexual hookers I saw in a cafe on the corner of the Boulevard de Clichy and the Rue Houdon in Paris in 1973 and she looked exactly like them. I was in a group of six at the time and when I returned alone a few weeks later they had gone, as they do. Hot pants were all the rage in the 1970s.
The rest is a car crash.

[trish]

Flags are just symbols. Flying them or burning them hurts no one any more than does speech. So what does is South Carolina trying to say when flies the flag of the Confederacy? The first time that flag flew over the South Carolina State Capitol since the Civil War was in 1964. Before 1964 the South voted solidly democratic. But 1964 saw the passage of the Civil Rights Act and 1965 the Voting Rights Act was passed. This flag when up in protest. Not until this millennium was it removed from the State Capitol. But it was placed on State land and legislation was passed that required a 2/3 majority vote to take it down. The flag doesn’t just symbolize racism; it is speech. It is a clear and continuing statement of opposition to Civil Rights Act of 1964.

Speech is protected. As far as I’m concerned...as far as the First Amendment is concerned...citizens of the U.S. can under reasonable circumstances say whatever they please. They may assemble, rally, fly flags or burn them. Of course if you participate in racist speech, then others are also free to judge and call you on it. Nevertheless I do think the State Government of South Carolina would do itself a favor if it retired that flag to the dustbin of history. Its people can continue to do as they please.

[buttslinger]

In Gone with the Wind, Ashley talks about the beautiful dream that was the old south, but reality broke it to pieces. If you hate the stars and bars that flew for four short years, what about the stars and stripes that applauded slavery and racism for 200 years???!!!!

For the South the Civil War was the GLORY years, for the hippies it was the summer of love, for the Chicago Bears it was the '85 season. Married couples have that first year of marriage to remember, Trannies have that year when strange guys came up to them and PAY them to suck their dick!!!!
Then reality sets in.

When it comes to ORGANIZATION, the ONE PERCENT is heads and shoulders above the new niggers, the middle class. In a sense we GIVE them half our paycheck every week!! They are truly color blind when it comes to Americans.
Speaking as someone who has LEE blood on my Mother's side, it's not Jesse Owens, or Art Monk, or even Beyoncé we have a problem with. It's the black kids that robbed me, broke into my house, vandalized my property, and blame the white man for making them do it because of slavery.
Of course I'm being cartoonish and simple, maybe a better point is that blacks would be better off trying to send all the Mexicans back to Mexico instead of protesting against a bunch of cracker cops and rednecks, the rednecks are a dying breed, but Hispanics are up and coming. Lots of employers these days are skipping right over the John and Jerome resumes to hire Jose.
You guys in England have nothing to compare this to. All your multi-millionaires have moved to the States for the lower tax rates.

It's easy to boo the confederate flag, I say put it in the museum. That leaves us with the American flag. Look out rest of the world. We've been fighting each other as long as we've been here.

[martin48]

You mean she'll have to take this off? Shame

[dreamon]

When "they" started associating themselves with it, things like the so-called true intent of the flag "changed" a bit. Say what you want, put your spin on things...but this cannot be denied.

[trish]

It's true, some people rally under the U.S. flag using it as symbol of racial purity. Those people want to build walls, severely limit immigration and deny minorities the right to vote. Some flag wavers don't even believe Obama is a citizen or the rightful president of the U.S. (although they make no noise about Cruz's birth certificate). Indeed, the U.S. flag flew over Southern States while they endorsed the slavery of hundreds of thousands of men, women and children.

The difference today is that the Union, flying the U.S. flag, put a stop to the horror and fought against slavery. The Confederacy, flying the treasonous battle flag, fought for slavery. S.C. flew the Confederate Flag as a protest against the Civil Rights Act of 1964. Flying the flag is speech, and the what the State Government of S.C. said when it flew that flag is, "We disapprove of civil rights for minorities." Dreamon can thumb down as much as he wants, but it doesn't change the fact that it a racist flag; it is the flag of treason. The First Amendment gives one the right to fly it and it gives others the right to judge one for flying it.

The S.C. legislature wisely voted not to fly it anymore. Will this decision end racism? When a State discontinues a daily ritual endorsing racism, will that put an end to racism? In the long run it can't hurt. Some people maintain, S.C. is only treating a symptom. Perhaps, but also the fact that S.C. discontinued this one racist ritual is symptomatic of a glacially slow but ongoing change that can be traced to the initial disagreements in this nation over the morality of slavery.