Circumcision 'lowers risk of HIV infection by 60%' (Ind.UK)

[Jamie Michelle]

Jamie Michelle said,
If this is true, then this will properly be something for human males to consider for themselves, not something for adults to force upon them against their will. A person old enough to decide to have sex is old enough to choose for himself whether he wants to be circumcized.

I doubt, though, that this is true to begin with, as most so-called "AIDS" cases in Africa have nothing to do with HIV. Rather, African "AIDS" is mostly due to starvation, dysentery, malaria, etc., which are labeled "AIDS" because that is where the international funding is at.

But these arguments are ex post facto justifications for circumcision. In the West, circumcision was exceedingly rare until the latter half of the 1800s, when anti-masturbation campaigns called for circumcision of youngsters in order to reduce masturbation (since it is often the case that circumcized males cannot masturbate naturally and normally).

This is the origin of circumcision in the Western world. It was only later, after masturbatory fears no longer held ground, that pseudo-medical and hygienic rationales were thought of in order to justify the already-established practice of circumcision.

In other words, the industry of circumcision was already in place, founded as it was upon utter idiocy, and in order to justify the existence of that industry (and hence, to assuage the conscience of its practitioners, who had been conducting circumcisions based upon that idiocy), new rationales had to be invented, in an attempt to retroactively justify all the previous circumcisions as well as continue on with business as usual.

For more on this, see the below:

"A Short History of Circumcision in North America: In the Physicians' Own Words," National Organization to Halt the Abuse and Routine Mutilation of Males (NOHARMM):

http://www.noharmm.org/docswords.htm

"The Ritual of Circumcision," Karen Ericksen Paige, Human Nature, May 1978, pp. 40-48:

http://www.noharmm.org/paige.htm

__________________________________________________ ________________________





No Jaime. This Idea of "circumcision" is not new or anything revolutionary. Circumcision is the product of biblical reference. In the Bible, both Christian and Jewish (Muslim Koran does as well), It speaks several times of circumcising children and it also makes numerous reference to those who are "UNCLEAN" (uncircumcised men).

I just think that it's facinating how a book thousands of years old and considered "obsolete" my many cynical pundits, I think it's facinating how that book can symbolically smack folks upside their head as if to tell them, "See, I was right, I tried to tell you silly basatards a long time ago and you hung me on a tree."

Circumcision has never been a Christian practice. Until the latter half of the 19th centrury it was exceedingly rare in Christian countries.

Apparently you have never actually read the New Testament from beginning to end. I have.

Galatians 5:1-6: Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage. Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing. And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law. You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. For we through the Spirit eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love. [NKJV.]

Indeed, the Catholic Church even prohibited circumcision:

"Bull of Union with the Copts," Pope Eugenius IV, Ecumenical Council of Florence, Session 11, February 4, 1442 (Norman P. Tanner, translator) http://www.cirp.org/library/cultural/councilflorence/ :

""
Therefore [the Holy Roman Church] denounces all who after that time observe circumcision, the sabbath and other legal prescriptions as strangers to the faith of Christ and unable to share in eternal salvation, unless they recoil at some time from these errors. Therefore it strictly orders all who glory in the name of Christian, not to practise circumcision either before or after baptism, since whether or not they place their hope in it, it cannot possibly be observed without loss of eternal salvation.
""

[chefmike]

How nice of you to post a picture of your boyfriend...is he against gay marriage like yourself, canadian cracker hypocrite? :P :P

The same Republican that makes every attempt to explain why he supports George W. Bush actually just posted a picture of his dick on a Shemale message board. Does that seem contradictory to anyone else?

Not Jeff Gannon...Jeff...is that you?

http://www.google.com/search?sourcei...&q=Jeff+Gannon

[JRon]

How nice of you to post a picture of your boyfriend...is he against gay marriage like yourself, canadian cracker hypocrite? :P :P

The same Republican that makes every attempt to explain why he supports George W. Bush actually just posted a picture of his dick on a Shemale message board. Does that seem contradictory to anyone else?

Not Jeff Gannon...Jeff...is that you?

http://www.google.com/search?sourcei...&q=Jeff+Gannon

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Gannon

They mention that he has gone under the pseudonym of "Bulldog" - - maybe we should add "White_Male_Canada" to the list

[ARMANIXXX]

Jamie Michelle said,

Circumcision has never been a Christian practice. Until the latter half of the 19th centrury it was exceedingly rare in Christian countries.

Apparently you have never actually read the New Testament from beginning to end. I have.

Galatians 5:1-6: Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage. Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing. And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law. You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. For we through the Spirit eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love. [NKJV.]

Indeed, the Catholic Church even prohibited circumcision:

"Bull of Union with the Copts," Pope Eugenius IV, Ecumenical Council of Florence, Session 11, February 4, 1442 (Norman P. Tanner, translator) http://www.cirp.org/library/cultural/councilflorence/ :

""
Therefore [the Holy Roman Church] denounces all who after that time observe circumcision, the sabbath and other legal prescriptions as strangers to the faith of Christ and unable to share in eternal salvation, unless they recoil at some time from these errors. Therefore it strictly orders all who glory in the name of Christian, not to practise circumcision either before or after baptism, since whether or not they place their hope in it, it cannot possibly be observed without loss of eternal salvation.

__________________________________________________ _______________________________


ahh...see you are mistaken on this count Jaime.

I'm not at home atm so I don't have access you a bible atm,
but I will point you into the direction of DAVID.
David was charged by God to collect the foreskins of hundreds of newborn children. I don't remember which book of the bible, but I'll get it for you latter when I go back home......just remind me ok.

I don't claim to be a scholar or anything like that, but I'm not a complete slouch in this subject either. Its been done for centuries because essentially God promoted clean well being.....which, and I know your gonna hate me for saying this, but this is also why it is against his will to partake in homosexual acts....partially anyways.

[ARMANIXXX]

here's some though I picked up with a skillfull google :


SCRIPTURE ABOUT CIRCUMCISION
THE GOSPELS
Luke 1:59-60 Circumcision of John the Baptist.

On the eighth day they came to circumcise the child, and they were going to name him after his father Zecheriah, but his mother spoke up and said,n "No! He is to be called John."

Luke 2:21-39. Circumcision of Jesus.

On the eighth day, when it was time to circumcise him, he was named Jesus, the name the angel had given him before he had been conceived.

John 7:21-24 Jesus teaches at the feast.

Jesus said to them, "I did one miracle, and you are all astonished. Yet because Moses gave you circumcision (though actually it did not come from Moses but from the patriarchs), you circumcise a child on the Sabbath. Now if a child can be circumcised on the Sabbath so that the law of Moses may not be broken, why are you angry with me for healing the whole man on the Sabbath? Stop judging by mere appearances and make a right judgment."

THE ACTS OF THE APOSTLES
Acts 15:1-21 The Council at Jerusalem

Some men came down from Judea to Antioch and were teaching the brothers: Unless you are circumcised according to the custom taught by Moses, you cannot be saved. This brought Paul and Barnabas into sharp dispute and debate with them. So Paul and Barnabas were appointed along with some other believers to go up to Jerusalem to see the apostles and elders about this question. The church sent them on their way, and as they traveled through Phoenicia and Samaria, they told how the Gentiles had been converted. This news made all the brothers very glad. When they came to Jerusalem, they were welcomed by the church and the apostles and elders, to whom they had reported every thing God had done through them.

Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, "The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to obey the law of Moses."

The apostles and elders met to consider this question. After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: "Brothers, you know that some time ago God made choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. He made no distinction between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of the disciples a yoke that neither we nor our fathers have been able to bear? No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are."

The whole assembly became silent as they listened to Barnabas and Paul telling them about the miraculous signs and wonders God had done among the Gentiles through them. When they had finished, James spoke up: "Brothers, listen to me. Simon has described to us how God at first showed his concern by taking from the Gentiles a people for himself. The words of the prophets are in agreement with this, as it is written:

`After this I will return
and rebuild David's fallen tent.
Its ruins I will rebuild,
and I will restore it,
that the remnant of men may seek the Lord,
and all Gentiles who bear my name,
says the Lord, who does these things'
that have been known for ages.

It is my judgment, therefore that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood. For Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath."

[ARMANIXXX]

Here's one more set for you Jaime,



Here is the origin of circumcision found in the �Covenant of Circumcision� from the Bible.

[Gen 17:14.13] Any uncircumcised male who is not circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin shall be cut off from his people; he has broken my covenant." This is the covenant of circumcision.

Also the following:

[Gen 17:24.16] Abraham was ninety-nine years old when he was circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin.

This story is replicated in the Sunni hadith theology. The Sunnis say Abraham circumcised himself with a small axe.

[Gen 17:25.18] And Ishmael his son was thirteen years old when he was circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin

And here is a particularly cultish ritual:

Exod 4:25.11] Then Zipporah took a flint and cut off her son's foreskin, and touched Moses' feet with it, and said, "Surely you are a bridegroom of blood to me!"

[chefmike]

Jamie Michelle said,

Circumcision has never been a Christian practice. Until the latter half of the 19th centrury it was exceedingly rare in Christian countries.

Apparently you have never actually read the New Testament from beginning to end. I have.

Galatians 5:1-6: Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage. Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing. And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law. You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. For we through the Spirit eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love. [NKJV.]

Indeed, the Catholic Church even prohibited circumcision:

"Bull of Union with the Copts," Pope Eugenius IV, Ecumenical Council of Florence, Session 11, February 4, 1442 (Norman P. Tanner, translator) http://www.cirp.org/library/cultural/councilflorence/ :

""
Therefore [the Holy Roman Church] denounces all who after that time observe circumcision, the sabbath and other legal prescriptions as strangers to the faith of Christ and unable to share in eternal salvation, unless they recoil at some time from these errors. Therefore it strictly orders all who glory in the name of Christian, not to practise circumcision either before or after baptism, since whether or not they place their hope in it, it cannot possibly be observed without loss of eternal salvation.

__________________________________________________ _______________________________


ahh...see you are mistaken on this count Jaime.

I'm not at home atm so I don't have access you a bible atm,
but I will point you into the direction of DAVID.
David was charged by God to collect the foreskins of hundreds of newborn children. I don't remember which book of the bible, but I'll get it for you latter when I go back home......just remind me ok.

I don't claim to be a scholar or anything like that, but I'm not a complete slouch in this subject either. Its been done for centuries because essentially God promoted clean well being.....which, and I know your gonna hate me for saying this, but this is also why it is against his will to partake in homosexual acts....partially anyways.

LMAO...two more people in addition to the chimp-in-chief, pat robertson, jerry falwell et al who have a direct conduit to god, jesus, bart simpson, or whoever the pagan idol du jour is... let the rapture (and the hypocrisy) continue brethren...

[chefmike]

How nice of you to post a picture of your boyfriend...is he against gay marriage like yourself, canadian cracker hypocrite? :P :P

The same Republican that makes every attempt to explain why he supports George W. Bush actually just posted a picture of his dick on a Shemale message board. Does that seem contradictory to anyone else?

Not Jeff Gannon...Jeff...is that you?

http://www.google.com/search?sourcei...&q=Jeff+Gannon

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Gannon

They mention that he has gone under the pseudonym of "Bulldog" - - maybe we should add "White_Male_Canada" to the list

Not to mention-- "yet another white male chickenhawk"...

[Jamie Michelle]

ARMANIXXX, the Old Testament is not the New Testament. There is a reason why these books have different names. The Gospel that Jesus Christ preached is not the same as the Old Testament doctrine.

Christians are "dead to the law," i.e., the law of men and the so-called "Law of Moses." That is, Christians are under not so much as the slightest obligation to follow such laws.

John the Baptist, Jesus Christ, the Apostles, and Saul (later to become Paul) were circumcised before Jesus Christ had preached His message. Simply because the New Testament gives an account of John the Baptist and Jesus Christ's circumcisions doesn't mean that it is giving it as an endorsement of the practice; it's simply relating a historical event.

Indeed, you even quote Acts 15, which speaks against circumcision!

[ARMANIXXX]

Jamie you are taking what is said out of context,

As I mentioned before to you Jaime, The first GALATIONS reference simply says that gettting circumcised will not save your spirit only your body. In other words, because you are NOT circumsised doesn't mean you can't go to heaven.

The same thing is said in ACTS.


The bottom line to squash this is:

JESUS WAS CIRCUMCISED. As far as I'm concerned if it was good enough for Jesus, then damn be me or my son to not be as well.


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