UK General ELection 7 May 2015

[Stavros]

I agree Laphroaig & well said Stavros. You are a wise man. I, wrongly assumed you were referring to the "traditional" Labour party.
Maybe David Milliband would of had the press closer to hand than Ed who seemingly as alienated them! David M just reminds me of Blair as do most of "new" Labour.
Doesn't it concern you when "tabloid filth" like the Daily Mail brand Ed as "Red Ed"? It's readers actually go for it, as do the media! Imagine what their opinion of "far right" would be! It's gone far to far for me. We are living amongst some "very sick" people!

David is a smooth operator, where Ed often looks dazed and confused. The problem is with identity, other than the NHS what does the Labour Party have to offer? I am not bothered with the tabloid press or even the Telegraph where Janet Daley over the weekend wrote an article in which she argued that Miliband is reviving class politics. He was the Trade Union's man, and it was their vote that clinched his victory in the leadership election, but the Unions are a spent force these days. Perhaps after the end of the Cold War there should have been a re-alignment on British politics, the problem is that small parties seem to remain small, and some left alternatives, like Respect, have become one-man bands. If Coalition politics is here to stay, however, this may make small party politics more attractive, but will also mean more parties with extreme views although it is hard to see any actually returning MPs to Parliament. For the time being we are stuck with what we have.

[Stavros]

I have nothing to back this up but the impression I got from Leanne Wood (Plaid Cymru) during the TV debate was that the Welsh voters were ready to desert Labour as well.

The conundrum in Wales is that both the Liberal Democrats and Labour might lose seats to the Nationalists, but this would still only give Plaid Cymwru six or seven seats, and some think one of the LibDems, in spite of tuition fees, is a popular MP and might hold on. This might not make much of a difference to the overall balance of power in the Commons.

Incidentally, there are three transgendered candidates running in this election:

Emily Brothers, Labour, in Sutton and Cheam (she is also blind)
Charlie Kiss, Green Party, Islington South and Finsbury
Stella Gardiner, Green Party, Bexleyheath and Crayford.
http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2014/12/13...ns-politcians/

In the past, Stephanie Dearden ran for the Liberal Democrats in 2005, and Nikki Sinclaire was UKIP MEP for the West Midands to 2014 although before that date she either left UKIP or was expelled, I can't recall which.

[broncofan]

I sensed that some of the stigma for Labour was based on Gordon Brown being Prime Minister during the financial crisis. If that's the case, I think any stigma is probably unjust. Nobody, or very few people, anticipated the crisis and the main cause of the crisis was poor bank regulation. I do not know how the parties fare on this issue, but typically more conservative/pro-business parties were in favor of de-regulation (when it came to reserve requirements and protections against banks being over-leveraged). Interesting that anyone should win political points for a truly international crisis that hardly anyone predicted.

You can always find leaders who will say the more progressive party doesn't understand the business climate. But are they saying that because they're worried about their tax liability or because they have identified a tangible macroeconomic harm that will flow from their policies? My sense is the former. My mechanic told me he would have to shut down if Obamacare was implemented. People often conflate their self-interest with the public interest. He's still in business and still a puttz.

So is Labour afraid of appearing too progressive? Is that a legitimate fear? Has it become a legitimate political fear given the effective scare-mongering of various right wing press outlets?

[Stavros]

I sensed that some of the stigma for Labour was based on Gordon Brown being Prime Minister during the financial crisis. If that's the case, I think any stigma is probably unjust. Nobody, or very few people, anticipated the crisis and the main cause of the crisis was poor bank regulation. I do not know how the parties fare on this issue, but typically more conservative/pro-business parties were in favor of de-regulation (when it came to reserve requirements and protections against banks being over-leveraged). Interesting that anyone should win political points for a truly international crisis that hardly anyone predicted.

You can always find leaders who will say the more progressive party doesn't understand the business climate. But are they saying that because they're worried about their tax liability or because they have identified a tangible macroeconomic harm that will flow from their policies? My sense is the former. My mechanic told me he would have to shut down if Obamacare was implemented. People often conflate their self-interest with the public interest. He's still in business and still a puttz.

So is Labour afraid of appearing too progressive? Is that a legitimate fear? Has it become a legitimate political fear given the effective scare-mongering of various right wing press outlets?

I don't agree with you argument -the end of the Labour government that coincided with the banking crisis led to the same government bailing out banks, and implementing the quantitative easing that is believed to have prevented the crisis from being even worse indeed, to have stabilized a sinking ship. The problem Labour faces is that the Blair and Brown governments are associated with high levels of immigration -whatever the facts about immigration it has always been a toxic issue in the UK-; the continuing fall-out from regime change in Iraq and the two engagements in Afghanistan with a knock-on effect on defence expenditure; tuition fees in universities; the creation of 'academies' and 'free schools' as well as 'faith schools' that have deepened our apartheid education system; and the historic, near-permanent low-to-zero interest rates which have been part of the insane rise in house prices which now means the average price of a house in the London area is £500,000 which may be why Labour's proposed 'mansion tax' is to be levied on homes beginning at £2 million, rather than, say £1 million.

It is not true that the banking crisis was not predicted, even if not widely, but it wasn't a global crisis either, as there was no banking crisis in Canada, in fact there hasn't been a banking failure in Canada since the 19th century. But let's face it, few people are going to wake up in the morning and say 'let's have what the Canadians have!', but rather 'Let's take maximum, hell, reckless risks with other people's money, way to go!' or words to that effect.
http://www.nber.org/digest/dec11/w17312.html

The idea of Labour being progressive is now close to absurd, it is terrified of being different on a wide range of issues, which is why UKIP appeals to those voters who feel the two main parties -as with Democrats and Republicans in the US- are just two versions of the same party with some minor differences on social policy, and when it comes to abortion and gay marriage, there isn't much to choose between Labour and the Tories. What does 'progressive' even mean in the 21st century?

[broncofan]

You're saying I'm wrong that the financial crisis issue is the major baggage of Labour? Given the other reasons you provided, I can accept that. It also sounds like you're saying they were given some credit for steadying things and preventing further collapse.

But I think with regards to those who predicted the crisis and those who avoided it, we're making slightly different points. I did not know about Canada, but it does show that a different, more responsible financial culture will lead to fewer (or no) bank failures. My point was only that the effects of this crisis were felt so broadly and so many people were blind-sided by it. It seems unfair for people to play the blame game in the typical way, unless there were other organized political parties warning about collateralized debt obligations before it became apparent they would default.

I believe in pervasive regulation of banks. It's not a very attractive policy for the public though...sure they don't like bank failures which are rare, catastrophic events, but people don't like being denied loans either, which is more common and therefore more likely to shift a vote.

What's progressive? Eliminating student tuition like you stated earlier would be a start. More broadly than that...not looking at opinion polls before calibrating one's position on an issue that should reflect a deeply and sincerely held belief about social and economic justice.

[broncofan]

as with Democrats and Republicans in the US- are just two versions of the same party with some minor differences on social policy, and when it comes to abortion and gay marriage, there isn't much to choose between Labour and the Tories. What does 'progressive' even mean in the 21st century?

You take away these two social issues and I can understand how people would see a lot of similarities between major parties. But you are fortunate not to have a political party representing the neanderthal viewpoint on the gay marriage issue. Nor do you have the major gun wedge issue we have...which just means your political culture is more sane and reasonable, albeit more raucous from what I've seen of PMs questions.

[Stavros]

There are in fact a lot of Tories who are opposed to gay marriage; women being ordained as priests in the Church of England and being elevated to the status of Bishop; and also have a fierce opposition to the UK's membership of the EU. Some have decided the party is not going to change on these issues and have defected to UKIP, others don't like the social policy but swallow their pride as they can see being opposed to liberal social policy loses votes, particularly among young people. The issue of Europe was so divisive in the Tory party it was seen as one of issues that undermined their chances of winning an election during 13 years of Labour rule, which is also why Cameron has the referendum on Europe as an option for the party though some think he is not serious about it.

Labour and the Tories both believe we do not need to elect our Head of State, do not need to change the way we vote, do not believe there is an alternative to capitalism, do not want to leave the EU, NATO or the UN; believe we should have a diverse education system, believe in the NHS as a service free at the point of use (but this may change if pay-as-you-go charges are mooted, but after the election); believe in the Commonwealth, foreign aid and favour Israel over all and any other country in the Middle East, with the possible exception of Turkey which, for reasons unknown to any sane individual, they think should be a full member of the EU.

[peejaye]

Well said again Stavros.
David Cameron would be totally mortified if the people of this country voted to leave the EU. Cameron loves the EU and everything it's interests stand for supporting capitalism and privatisation programmes. That is why YOU won't get a referendum on the EU if the Tories are elected. It's just to "woo" voters because the Tories are running scared of UKIP.
They will just say if elected ; It's not in the interests of the UK economy to risk leaving the EU right now. That will be the end of it! Anyone thinking they will get a vote are total fools!

[Stavros]

It has been revealed that John Langley, UKIP's candidate for Bristol Stockwood, is also known as porn star 'Johnny Rockard'. In the event of a Hung parliament, Mr Langley, a Rising star in UKIP, may be expected to sit on the right hand of UKIP leader Nigel Farage in any negotiations leading to a coalition government.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-32230155

http://www.johnnyrockard.com/

[Laphroaig]

Slightly off topic, but I'd pay big money to watch this.

"UKIP's leader has been challenged to a duel in London's Hyde Park by a Polish prince brandishing a sabre.

Yanek Zlinski claimed Polish people suffered, and feared, violence in the UK, which he blamed on Nigel Farage's party, prompting him to make a video with claims about discrimination."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2015-32318250