UK General ELection 7 May 2015

[fred41]

As for how the various elections were contested, I'd have to disagree with some of the comments indicating that in the U.S. we consider more superficial factors like how photogenic a candidate is. The focus on Ed Miliband's appearance, his social awkwardness, how he eats sandwiches, whether he committed fratricide, his father's disposition towards treason; well it wasn't exactly high brow. It was exactly the type of thing we'd hear in our elections and quite persistent too. I did enjoy how engaged the people seem to be in the electoral process though and hope the next five years under Cameron go well.

Well, folks here have a tendency to forget that we imported that type of sensationalist news from the UK.

[fred41]

As Jericho says, I'd hope they did it either to make a point or out of respect for the candidate.

As for stupid voting, remind us again, how many Americans voted George W Bush in for a SECOND term of office?...

George Bush was elected twice because he was extremely likeable...especially given the opposition. That's all it takes. The media leans left and it always will, but the folks in Bush's plane still liked him better than the folks in Gore's plane. Gore should've been able to win by a landslide, but he didn't because he sounds like a patronizing dork. He can grow a beard and wear jeans but it still looks fake. Same with Kerry...only worse. Hell, when you look at it in perspective, you can come up with all kinds of polling breakdowns, but I think the reason President Obama beat Hillary Clinton in the primaries was because he is tremendously more likeable than her.
Jimmy Carter, Bill Clinton...no one new who the hell they were at the time, but you can imagine having a beer with them...and sometimes... that is all it takes.
Not sure if that applies in the UK though.

[broncofan]

I thought the bacon sandwich litmus test is sort of the same thing as we have here where politicians try to avoid seeming out of touch. Can the pol eat a bacon sandwich or are they too highfalutin to eat what the working class people eat?

Mind you there might not be as much of that, but Miliband was considered a North London geek….in the same way John Kerry was considered a northeastern patrician robot. Part of the reason they may have to prove they are not out of touch is because many of their politicians, like ours, are drawn from a small pool of elite universities. And while both leaders may not have been members of a skull and bones club, David Cameron was a member of the Bullingdon club, whose members go through various initiation rituals, including a recent one of burning money in front of beggars.

Anyhow, the political literacy and level of participation seem to be much greater in the UK. A voter turnout in the mid to high 60 percent is higher than we get in U.S. national elections and people seemed generally knowledgeable about the candidate's positions. But I actually followed a few races and there was much of the same rabble-rousing, scapegoating, and attention to personal characteristics we have here. Just my take…

[Laphroaig]

I didn't pay much attention to the whole "bacon sarnie saga" at the time so I never really bothered to find out what the point of it was.
What caught my attention was the use of that photo on the front page of The Sun newspaper in a last ditch effort to persuade it's readership not to vote Labour.
Ironically, at the same time the Scottish Sun was encouraging us to vote SNP. Though some have claimed that this was a cunning ploy to lock out Labour as well. If it was, then it was astonishingly successful...

Others will correct me if I'm wrong but I have the impression that the Leaders live TV debates which were introduced during the 2010 election have led to a greater focus on personality/looks/likeability than was the case in previous elections.

Mind you, if it came down to beer drinking, Farage would be PM now, he was never out of a pub during his campaign...

[Stavros]

peejaye, and others, with what you know of American politics, would you gather that your far right filth is worse than the Republican Party in the US? As a liberal, I certainly understand your reaction to the party on the right, but the Tories have always seemed rather tame, to me, when compared to the right wing idealogues here in the US who have completely taken over the Republican Party. This new idiot Senator Tom Cotton is what I expect from the Grand Ol' Party from now until ... well, actually, I see it never changing.

If there are similarities on the 'far right' in the UK and the US it is with what we would call 'White Supremacists', people whose view of society is derived from the concept of 'race' in which, quite simply, White people are demonstrably superior to all others. There may be nuances which are different, I think that much of this kind of 'far right' attitude in the UK starts out as xenophobia and morphs into pseudo-science as they try to explain or justify the belief.

The differences then emerge with the solutions. The 'far right' in the UK is statist, in the sense that they believe in the kind of corporatist state that one associates with Hitler and Mussolini -a strong centralised government which brings all the major forces of the state, society and the economy into one unbreakable union. I am not sure the white supremacists have the same view of the role of the state in their dreamy white land.

Although I think there are still people in the Consevative and Republican parties who believe 'white people' are superior beings -a view that can also be found in the Labour party- differences are found when you move closer to the centre. The 'right wing' or the economically 'liberal' wing of the Conservatives is similar to the Republican and TEA party in its mistrust of government, its belief in low taxation, and the belief that government should not be doing what people can do for themselves. But the Conservative party is for the most part devoted to the State, monarchy, and the Church of England, giving the UK its Christian identity and its political institutions. Margaret Thatcher thus became both the heroine of the 'libertarian' right and also their greatest disappointment, because she only went so far in detaching the state from the economy, which is also the criticism that the TEA party and theorists (now dead) like Rothbard, Hoppe and Ayn Rand had of the American system and is the source of Republican In Name Only jibe of the TEA party.

So an agreement on low taxation, minimal government, anti-welfare, and the state detached from the economy unites the two, but in the American context the dream is a revival of the America of small communities, low to zero taxation, locally raised militias rather than a 'national' army, and an almost invisible Federal government, which is how the America of George Washington and de Tocqueville is fondly 'remembered', whereas in the UK the state, the monarchy, the armed forces and the Church cannot be separated or dismantled. It is the difference between the 'One Nation' Tories like Cameron and a libertarian like defence secretary Michael Fallon, but none of these people subscribe to theories of race, they have become tolerant of women in politics and of homosexual realities -it is their view on the relationships between the state, society and the economy where they intersect with so-called 'neo-liberalism' and globalisation and many Republicans in the US.

[Stavros]

I thought the bacon sandwich litmus test is sort of the same thing as we have here where politicians try to avoid seeming out of touch. Can the pol eat a bacon sandwich or are they too highfalutin to eat what the working class people eat?

Mind you there might not be as much of that, but Miliband was considered a North London geek….in the same way John Kerry was considered a northeastern patrician robot. Part of the reason they may have to prove they are not out of touch is because many of their politicians, like ours, are drawn from a small pool of elite universities. And while both leaders may not have been members of a skull and bones club, David Cameron was a member of the Bullingdon club, whose members go through various initiation rituals, including a recent one of burning money in front of beggars.

Anyhow, the political literacy and level of participation seem to be much greater in the UK. A voter turnout in the mid to high 60 percent is higher than we get in U.S. national elections and people seemed generally knowledgeable about the candidate's positions. But I actually followed a few races and there was much of the same rabble-rousing, scapegoating, and attention to personal characteristics we have here. Just my take…

Broncofan, the bacon sandwich episode was one of the veiled anti-Jewish jibes that came and went through the campaign. Last year or whenever it was the Daily Mail published an article in which Miliband's father was described as a Marxist who hated Britain, the subliminal message was the same that has been levelled at the Jews for centuries -they can't be trusted. And given that Benjamin Disraeli converted to Christianity at the age of 12, Miliband would have been the first Jew to become Prime Minister, even if he is an atheist and eats bacon sandwiches. Moreover, the Daily Mail in the days when it was owned by the Rothermeres, was an early enthusiast for Adolf Hitler and Benito Mussolini, and has been one of the most consistently aggressive anti-Labour papers since they were able to be so. Some of these nuances might not get over the pond. As for the man, he became leader because his brother David refused to kow-tow to the Trade Unions, just as the same unions will be the key decision makers on whoever becomes leader of the party which, I assume will be decided at the Conference in September -there will be a special session before the main business of the week.

As for the political literacy of the public -they might be more literate than the average voter in the US, but that's not saying much. The low turn-outs are mostly due to apathy but is something one ought to worry about. There were 70% plus in some constituencies, but there hasn't been an 80% plus turnout since 1951 -even crucial elections like 1979 and 1997 were 76% and 71% respectively.

[martin48]

Looks like I got it right even if the polls didn't. Look forward to more very poor people, more rich bastards, little England out of Europe and Scotland off on its own.

I suspect - same old shit

[peejaye]

I think Martin48 is "spot-on" with his predictions although I still suspect Cameron will do a "U-turn" on a referendum on Europe?
Think that was just a vote winner and it worked. Millions liked what Nigel Farage said about the EU but didn't trust him with anything else much to the massive advantage to Cameron.

[Laphroaig]

I think Martin48 is "spot-on" with his predictions although I still suspect Cameron will do a "U-turn" on a referendum on Europe?
Think that was just a vote winner and it worked. Millions liked what Nigel Farage said about the EU but didn't trust him with anything else much to the massive advantage to Cameron.

I think there are enough euro skeptics within the Tory party to keep Cameron "honest" on his pledge to hold an EU referendum. He has such a slim majority in Parliament that he can't afford to alienate any faction within his party.

What could be interesting is the form the referendum takes. I can't put a link but I heard on the radio this morning that some want a condition of the referendum to be that ALL 4 countries within the UK will have to support an "out" vote, not just a simple overall UK majority.

[martin48]

Good point - One of the first thing Cameron has to do is pass "English MPs for English laws" Can he then get a referendum though on just England in or out of the EU 'Cos Scotland will vote in. Northern Ireland and Wales have done very well out of EU investment - but perhaps they will forget.

As usual. the election went the way it did because voters worry about the economy and the economic arguments for staying in Europe are so strong as opposed to the risks of pulling out. The out campaign will have the money backing it and the strong individuals.

What a possible place in history for Cameron - part of a small island off the coast of Europe with little influence on the world. The Empire finally dead!

I think there are enough euro skeptics within the Tory party to keep Cameron "honest" on his pledge to hold an EU referendum. He has such a slim majority in Parliament that he can't afford to alienate any faction within his party.

What could be interesting is the form the referendum takes. I can't put a link but I heard on the radio this morning that some want a condition of the referendum to be that ALL 4 countries within the UK will have to support an "out" vote, not just a simple overall UK majority.