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  1. #11
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    Default Re: How the Universe Became Something out of Nothing

    One hundred years ago, in 1915, the most respected cosmologists were introduced to Einstein's theory of Relativity, and everything changed in our understanding of the nature of the Universe. The Universe didn't change, our understanding of it changed. Our minds changed. What we believed changed.
    While the Big Bang didn't claim to be the Universe springing from nothing, it did say that everything outside the softball sized Universe was nothing, didn't exist, was not there.
    It makes sense that a hundred years from now we'll know more, and some things we take for granted as true now will be disproved. Maybe in a few years Trish will get a bump on the head and see God, who knows?
    All I know is that I feel incredibly USED and betrayed that Pluto is no longer considered a planet. They LIED to me!!!!!Never again!!!!
    The "field of study" in religion is not the Universe, it is the soul, the valley between our physical self and God. In that valley is temptation, desire, dreams, wants, needs. In the Religion Biz, you don't try and understand that valley as much as you try to deny it's hold over you. You don't get sucked in. Only then can you stand before God in Heaven, the God that surpasses understanding. The proof is in the pudding.
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  2. #12
    5 Star Poster sukumvit boy's Avatar
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    Default Re: How the Universe Became Something out of Nothing

    Right...Click image for larger version. 

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  3. #13
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    Default Re: How the Universe Became Something out of Nothing

    I think this defines many "new" atheists very well:

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    We haven't even left the confines of our own solar system but apparently there's people on this Earth who will tell me there's no god beyond the universe as well as no life on other planets. Who makes claims like this? A dreamer who can leave their body at sleep and explore the universe with their soul with faster than light travel? Jog on mate, your dreams are not evidence. Or is this someone who is omniscient, therefore God himself?

    So either I'm having a discussion with God and he's trolling me on all these sites saying he doesn't exist and he's omniscient so he should know or I'm having a discussion with a religious atheist who thinks his religious belief that there is no god is better than other religious beliefs.

    As I said in the other thread:

    At the end of the day, despite what any group may claim, no one truly knows all there is to know about the universe. The atheists try to champion science and say "see here, there is no god even though we haven't explored all of our own galaxy let alone the universe and beyond to know anything like this, I'm going to make this absolute claim anyway" and then the religious "my scripture is absolutely right and knows the answers to everything" in reality we're all in the same boat of knowing precious little even these so-called scientists are in that boat.

    We haven't even got out of our own solar system for God's sake and there's arrogant people saying "there's no god beyond this universe."

    So in this regard I think the atheists can be as arrogant as the religious if not more so. If the multiverse exists, then who is say what this means? Current science speculates that there's different dimensions, realms and universes where the laws of physics could be different. This means realms that we could not comprehend exist perhaps alongside beings that we could not comprehend whom would appear supernatural to us. One could even argue our own universe or another could be alive itself and then the argument falls down to not "does a god exist?" but "how do you define a god?" If a god is a creator then for all we know there could be an infinite number of extra-dimensional beings that fit this description. The multiverse says our universe is a bubble in a bigger bubble filled with other bubbles but what if the multiverse itself is just one more bubble in another?

    Lawrence Krauss is like Richard Dawkins. If not for his religious rants, he would be unknown, having made little contributions to science other than his "meme theory" which was highly criticized by other scientists. Krauss is the same. He says a quantum fluctuation from nothing caused the universe and then attempts to redefine what nothing is whilst presenting no empirical evidence for his hypothesis. Even if this is true, how does this support atheism as he argues regularly? The theist can still argue with causality persisting that the spark had to come from somewhere. Alternatively if entire universes with consciousness that form inside them can arise from fluctuations why then not conscious universes which one could argue could be defined as gods themselves?

    This "militant atheism" Krauss identifies with seems to be as dogmatic and religious as any faith which is why I cannot take it seriously. Dogmatism and militancy should not be brought into science. Krauss says all scientists should be militant atheists but this invites a clear agenda, bias and doctrine into science. Science should continue how it is with no creed or allegiance to any philosophy and what Krauss may interpret as "evidence against a god" another scientist like Francis Collins may interpret his own discoveries as "evidence for a god" and this is how things should remain. God is a philosophical concept.

    All I can say is we should keep an open mind. If you want to say you disbelieve or believe in a god or gods, fine but when you say "I know for certain" you've got a lot to prove, in fact to "know for certain" you have to be omniscient and therefore God himself but I find many atheists here to be quite narrow-minded and arrogant in their thinking.


    Last edited by Fyusian; 10-11-2015 at 06:32 PM.

  4. #14
    Silver Poster hippifried's Avatar
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    Default Re: How the Universe Became Something out of Nothing

    Universe:
    The sum of everything that exists in the cosmos, including space & time ltself.

    The very idea that we finite hairless upright apes can define & measure, or claim to know the origin of the universe just seems like hubris to me. The reality is that all we can measure are limits. Personally, I can't accept limits on the universe as fact. "Out of nothing"? Who says? Beginning? Why is that even necessary? We can contemplate various concepts, & even give them names. But as finite beings, can we truly comprehend eternity &/or infinity? I'm thinking creation stories came about because we can't. If God is eternal, infinite, omnl-everything, & the creator, why does the creator & the creation have to be separate entities? Because we're finite? We've created all kinds of ways to find limits on everything we can perceive, including abstracts like mathematics & time itself. It's all very interesting & whatnot, butteye just can't flnd any kind of faith for myself.



  5. #15
    Junior Poster nitron's Avatar
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    Default Re: How the Universe Became Something out of Nothing

    Why isn't there nothing?Why is there something at all. It's obvious...



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