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  1. #11
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    Default Re: Anti-Gay But Pro-Transgender, Iran Encourages Gender Reassignment Surgery

    Trish, thanks for the reference to a book I was not aware of.
    I should also have drawn attention to this story that appeared earlier this year, about the US Airman who was denied the right to re-enlist because he refused to recite the the last phrase of the oath which states:
    I, ____________________, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.”

    Apparently it is US law that service personnel in the Air Force must recite these words if they wish to serve.

    http://archive.airforcetimes.com/art...y-help-me-God-

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...nlist-god-oath



  2. #12
    Hung Angel Platinum Poster trish's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anti-Gay But Pro-Transgender, Iran Encourages Gender Reassignment Surgery

    In 1776 the Oath of Enlistment read, "I _____ have, this day, voluntarily enlisted myself, as a soldier, in the American continental army, for one year, unless sooner discharged: And I do bind myself to conform, in all instances, to such rules and regulations, as are, or shall be, established for the government of the said Army. "


    The example of the serviceman who was refused re-enlistment because of the oath speaks to my point. It is neither just to theists that the defense of the country should fall upon their shoulders (because of an oath to "God"), nor is it fair to atheists that their service is refused. It's not the worst injustice one can imagine. Atheists can (and do) grit their teeth, take the oath and serve their country well. But it's a petty and nasty thing to do to someone who is willing to give their life for freedom (including the freedom of religion).


    Last edited by trish; 12-03-2014 at 11:25 PM.
    "...I no longer believe that people's secrets are defined and communicable, or their feelings full-blown and easy to recognize."_Alice Munro, Chaddeleys and Flemings.

    "...the order in creation which you see is that which you have put there, like a string in a maze, so that you shall not lose your way". _Judge Holden, Cormac McCarthy's, BLOOD MERIDIAN.

  3. #13
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    Default Re: Anti-Gay But Pro-Transgender, Iran Encourages Gender Reassignment Surgery

    You have a balanced, and logical answer, but as an American you might want to ask more questions about the attempt a part of your society -your fellow Americans- is making to change the secular foundations of American institutions, and to make fidelity to Christian belief the litmus test of loyalty to America itself. Ergo the 'military evangelism' referred to in the introduction to this article:

    Coercive evangelizing and official promotion of evangelical Protestantism is rife and systemic within the US military. Soldiers at Ft. Eustis who would not volunteer to attend a command-sponsored evangelical concert were marched to their barracks and punished with a lockdown until the concert ended. US taxpayers partially funded and Ft. Bragg chaplains co-sponsored an evangelical rally held on Fort Bragg’s Main Parade Field and intended to take “the Christian message to all of Fort Bragg and the surrounding community.” Officers gave evangelical missionaries from the Gideons both an introduction and preferential access to enlisted recruits. Cadets at the U.S. Air Force Academy face a gauntlet of evangelical professors, staff, chaplains, and upper class members, with command authority, who pressure them to attend worship services, receive evangelical instruction, and evangelize their fellow cadets. Commanders pressure soldiers to attend marriage conferences run by the evangelical Focus on the Family, which has a Department of Defense contract to host the conferences.

    http://instituteforscienceandhumanva...20military.htm



  4. #14
    Hung Angel Platinum Poster trish's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anti-Gay But Pro-Transgender, Iran Encourages Gender Reassignment Surgery

    Quote Originally Posted by Stavros View Post
    You have a balanced, and logical answer, but as an American you might want to ask more questions about the attempt a part of your society -your fellow Americans- is making to change the secular foundations of American institutions, and to make fidelity to Christian belief the litmus test of loyalty to America itself. Ergo the 'military evangelism' referred to in the introduction to this article:
    ...
    http://instituteforscienceandhumanva...20military.htm
    Indeed. I’m well aware of the political pressure of religious fundamentalism in the U.S. Your example of its infiltration of the American military is to the point. Other examples include the 2008 passage of California’s prop 8 (the amendment against same sex marriage) which was hugely financed by the Mormon Church. We’ve had a “Christian” cult that attended military funerals to protest sodomy (although I never really understood the connection it was apparently clear to Our Lord in Heaven). Not only our currency but Indiana license plates declare “In God we trust.” Fundamentalists on school boards throughout the “Bible Belt” regularly and illegally foist creationism onto the biology curriculum. Fundamentalists not only preach, protest and legislate against contraception and abortion, they have encouraged more violent forms of dissent. Doctors have been murdered.

    When I say, “Theocracy, by it's very nature, is an unjust form of government,” I’m not just talking about Islam. But I’ll add, that as bad as the U.S. is it is no more a theocracy than it is a police state.

    From abolitionists to prohibitionists, religious zealots have influenced our evolution as a nation for good and ill. I suspect Islam has had good and ill influences as well on the social evolution of the Middle East (and Indonesia). But governments, to be just, need to be open to all personal perspectives on the Cosmos.


    "...I no longer believe that people's secrets are defined and communicable, or their feelings full-blown and easy to recognize."_Alice Munro, Chaddeleys and Flemings.

    "...the order in creation which you see is that which you have put there, like a string in a maze, so that you shall not lose your way". _Judge Holden, Cormac McCarthy's, BLOOD MERIDIAN.

  5. #15
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    Default Re: Anti-Gay But Pro-Transgender, Iran Encourages Gender Reassignment Surgery

    Iran is a paradox of a country.


    Glad to meet you.

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