Watch Capt. Ron Johnson’s amazing Michael Brown speech

[trish]

I see you choose to continue this discussion.

Of course you could’ve ended this particular line of discourse back on page one simply by asserting something like...

“You make the assertion that the major talk given by a black father to his son is about the police and the criminal justice system, while the major talk given by the white father to his son was about sex. Your evidence is anecdotal. I’m a black man and my father never gave me The Police Talk but I did get The Sex Talk and that can be taken as anecdotal evidence for the negation your claim.”

This whole circuitous route was about you wanting to call bullshit but not wanting to admit that your evidence was also no better than anecdotal.

Now let's review your current claim.

The assertion was the major talk given by a black father to his son was about the police and the criminal justice system. While the major talk given by the white father to his son was about sex. I challenged that assertion.

This asserts The Sex talk is still the "major" talk given even in African/American families. It's difficult to see how anecdotal evidence or anything short of a survey can settle this question one way or the other.

[notdrunk]

I see you choose to continue this discussion.

Of course you could’ve ended this particular line of discourse back on page one simply by asserting something like...

“You make the assertion that the major talk given by a black father to his son is about the police and the criminal justice system, while the major talk given by the white father to his son was about sex. Your evidence is anecdotal. I’m a black man and my father never gave me The Police Talk but I did get The Sex Talk and that can be taken as anecdotal evidence for the negation your claim.”

This whole circuitous route was about you wanting to call bullshit but not wanting to admit that your evidence was also no better than anecdotal.

Now let's review your current claim.

This asserts The Sex talk is still the "major" talk given even in African/American families. It's difficult to see how anecdotal evidence or anything short of a survey can settle this question one way or the other.

I called it "bullshit" because it is my personal opinion on that talk. I consider the so-called talk to be non-sense. Non-sense as in hypocritical in my opinion. I followed it by stating that not every black father does that talk. Which is correct. You over-analyzed my statement. You took my statement as something extreme; however, it wasn't an extreme statement.

[trish]

Don't believe that "THE TALK" bullshit. There is no special talk between every black father and his child about the police. ...

I called it "bullshit" because it is my personal opinion on that talk. I consider the so-called talk to be non-sense. Non-sense as in hypocritical in my opinion. ...

With this we move from the meta-discussion about how typical or how atypical “the talk” (about encounters with law enforcement) is to concerns about whether or not the talk itself amounts to nonsense, or is useful advice, or necessary advice or just “bullshit.”

It seems to me that a lot of what people say about “the talk” (look up the Gawker article) is good advice for everyone regardless of race. When stopped by law enforcement, keep your hands in sight at all times. Don’t make any sudden moves. Ask permission to retrieve your license or registration card from the glove box. Don’t get out of the car unless you’re told. Don’t mouth off, get cute, smart alecky or sassy. Pretty much common sense stuff which given the statistics seems like it would be especially good advice for young African/American males.

Like most semi-formal talks between parent and teen, it can be a pretty uncomfortable talk. It’s hilarious to hear my brothers recount Dad’s version of the birds and bees talk. I don’t think its particularly “hypocritical” unless the parent giving the advice never follows it. I think it’s a charge perhaps more easily leveled at a parent delivering the standard “sex talk.” But regardless of whether the deliverer or not is a hypocrite, the advice delivered can be sound.

Should every African/American parent have a sit down with their teen and discuss how one should behave during encounters with law enforcement? It’s not a bad idea. It’s utility may depend on where you live. I grew up in rural southern Pennsylvania. We didn’t get “the police talk” until we decided to spend a week in Baltimore visiting two of my Dad’s brothers. Turns out we didn’t need it, but it did keep us on our best behavior.

http://gawker.com/what-black-parents...ice-1624412625

[fred41]

With this we move from the meta-discussion about how typical or how atypical “the talk” (about encounters with law enforcement) is to concerns about whether or not the talk itself amounts to nonsense, or is useful advice, or necessary advice or just “bullshit.”

It seems to me that a lot of what people say about “the talk” (look up the Gawker article) is good advice for everyone regardless of race. When stopped by law enforcement, keep your hands in sight at all times. Don’t make any sudden moves. Ask permission to retrieve your license or registration card from the glove box. Don’t get out of the car unless you’re told. Don’t mouth off, get cute, smart alecky or sassy. Pretty much common sense stuff which given the statistics seems like it would be especially good advice for young African/American males.

Like most semi-formal talks between parent and teen, it can be a pretty uncomfortable talk. It’s hilarious to hear my brothers recount Dad’s version of the birds and bees talk. I don’t think its particularly “hypocritical” unless the parent giving the advice never follows it. I think it’s a charge perhaps more easily leveled at a parent delivering the standard “sex talk.” But regardless of whether the deliverer or not is a hypocrite, the advice delivered can be sound.

Should every African/American parent have a sit down with their teen and discuss how one should behave during encounters with law enforcement? It’s not a bad idea. It’s utility may depend on where you live. I grew up in rural southern Pennsylvania. We didn’t get “the police talk” until we decided to spend a week in Baltimore visiting two of my Dad’s brothers. Turns out we didn’t need it, but it did keep us on our best behavior.

http://gawker.com/what-black-parents...ice-1624412625

A parent's role should be instructing their children on all important aspects of life...especially where safety is concerned. A parent should explain what their child should do in a possible interaction with the police at some point in their life...not only what they should do, but also why the parent feels that way. Because most of us , if we drive or are a passenger in a car, will at the very least, get caught up in a traffic stop, at some point in our lives.

That being said...I got my instructions on what to do during a traffic stop in my teens, by the son of a police officer - hands in sight...on the wheel or dash...pretty much everything Trish said in her second paragraph...and you would think it's common sense...but far too many people lack it.

[trish]

http://nyti.ms/1mAexeT

http://nyti.ms/1mAuT79

[Turlington]

..........

[Silcc69]

This is how Black parents talk to their sons about the police. Every black person (not just males) I know have had this talk an have received it from their parents. So fuck that myth shit.

Unless you were raised in a religious, conservative, republican household such as myself.

[broncofan]

Some people are reluctant to admit it but white privilege exists. Except I think the privilege is not dealing with systematic disadvantage or being treated as alien in your own country.

I read a study one time that said that discussion of racism or mistreatment of a minority group results in physiological signs of anger in a majority group member hearing about it. It might be a feeling of futility that you are not directly responsible for the circumstances that brought about that condition and are powerless to do anything about it. But what you can do is acknowledge it as true. Put aside the feelings of mis-placed guilt, or anger, or frustration, and analyze it soberly and speak truthfully.

What is so amazing is that even with white privilege or any sort of privilege life is still not easy (this might be a ready source of the denial). But any time there's a systematic disadvantage, such as harassment by police, poor health care, inequality at every stage of the criminal justice system, it's only right to admit it.

[fred41]

I read a study one time that said that discussion of racism or mistreatment of a minority group results in physiological signs of anger in a majority group member hearing about it. It might be a feeling of futility that you are not directly responsible for the circumstances that brought about that condition and are powerless to do anything about it. But what you can do is acknowledge it as true. Put aside the feelings of mis-placed guilt, or anger, or frustration, and analyze it soberly and speak truthfully.

What is so amazing is that even with white privilege or any sort of privilege life is still not easy (this might be a ready source of the denial). But any time there's a systematic disadvantage, such as harassment by police, poor health care, inequality at every stage of the criminal justice system, it's only right to admit it.

I think you nailed it with what I put in bold.
Someone else mentioned a variation of this sentence in another thread.
White privilege exists,...no doubt.
But while many of us either started out with or worked our way up to a level of comfort where we actually have the leisure time to enter into a discussion about that, on a site such as this...and have the ability to reflect on a fact such as this...
the white blue collar worker who is scraping by working several menial, backbreaking jobs...who perhaps never got to college because he or she couldn't afford it...or just missed being able to get the marks, or maybe never even got through high school cause he had to work in a factory very early in life (like my dad), or may have did jail time for BS drug arrests, or might have got his or her ass kicked and robbed or just beat up for shits and giggles by walking through the wrong neighborhood at the wrong time...just like people of other races...or lives a hollow dead end existence in a shitty town or city or rural area that was abandoned of any jobs or prosperity a long long time ago...
people like that may recognize that white privilege exists, but they never really had any reason to appreciate that fact.
...and so they really don't want to hear about it.
When you're miserable...you really don't want to hear about an advantage you're supposed to have.


(edit...BTW, I think it was Buttslinger that said something like that somewhere...)

[broncofan]

When I thought of that line I did think I hit on something (even if you now tell me Buttslinger said something like it first). My aesthetic objection to "white privilege" is that I've been a beneficiary of it and life is tough and I've experienced only the most moderate and sporadic successes in life. Does being a beneficiary of white privilege qualify as one more life failure, or put in a new light those other failures I've experienced despite it?

But I can think of several times in my life where things would have been difficult without it. I got in trouble as a youth. My penance was academic suspension and one extra essay for college. I can almost guarantee you there would be no "boys will be boys" or "growing pains" excuses otherwise.

But yes I recognize that the privilege can be hard to identify in the sense that it's a relative privilege...it may be better thought of as white privilege to African Americans and the lack of systematic disadvantage to white people.