off topic...California law to ban/exterminate Pit Bulls

[Quinn]

What you said makes no sense. most pit bulls are owned by caring responsible owners. of course there is a small minority of scum that will take these dogs and train them to be mean and fight. but that is a small minority.

It may be a "small" minority in your little corner of the world, but in the inner city neighborhoods where I do gentrification related investing, they are nearly as common as sagging pants and illiteracy -- with many of them being trained.

As for comparisons between this breed and any other, you have to be kidding. You may as well be comparing an M1 Abrams Tank to a Yugo.

-Quinn

first of all i live in the inner city and have all my life...the backyard breeders and dog fighters are a problem...but they are the ones who should be punished, not the innocent dogs.


and it doesnt sound like you know much about the breed....pits by nature are very people friendly...in fact if you look more into the breed they dont even make good watch dogs because its not in their nature to be viscous towards people or territorial....and you want to advocate exterminating this breed because of a few scumbag owners train them to be viscous

here is a link to the american temperment society....they test the temperments of all dogs...and pits rate higher than most other breeds.

http://www.atts.org/statistics.htm

If you actually do live in the inner city, which I doubt, then you must know that the problem goes far beyond people training this breed for dog fights. The primary problem is the hoods who train them to be viscous so that they can have a tough dog, not the little bitches who train them for dog fights.

As for "not sounding like I know much about the breed," what less than keen insight do you base that point of view on? Since I have already stated that I agree with your assessment of the breed's temperament, it must be something as arbitrary as my disagreeing with your point of view regarding the ban's imposition. Wow, that really demonstrates a very impressive clarity of thought. LOL....

In the end, any reasonable person knows that legislation designed to punish people who train this breed to be aggressive can't be effectively enforced. Law enforcement authorities have already stated as much, which is why certain municipalities are imposing bans in the first place.

Unfortunately, this breed has largely become just another fashionable weapon for wannabe thugs -- who are its principal buyers. Regarding this commonly held (and accurate) perception, Wikipedia states the following:

American Pit Bull Terriers and APBT-looking dogs are often associated with the urban and hip hop culture, and many young (predominantly male) people purchase them on the grounds of wanting a 'tough dog' — sadly, dogs acquired for such purposes (of any breed) often end up maltrained and in poor health.

You can argue against the factual data contained in the San Francisco Chronicle article, you can argue against a widely held public perception, or you can argue against common sense. Frankly, I'm not terribly interested in discussing this any more tonight either way.

-Quinn

[seanj]

you wanna talk about clarity of though? lol how bout the words ignorant and misinformed...do they mean anything to you?

if you know anything about nj i have lived in east orange and orange all my life and have spent alot of time in newark....so believe me i know what goes on in the inner city.

the point is that the large majority of pits are owned by families and individuals who love and care for them as part of their family.

you say that you know that pits are friendly good natured dogs....but exterminate them anyway because a few ghetto thugs wanna train them to be viscous.....what kind of logic is that.

i dont wanna go back and forth with this....i posted this here for people who are interested in helping the breed by signing the peitition....you want to ban the breed....fine.

and take a look at this link....its hard to watch but its sheds a little insight into what the apbt has been going through.

http://www.pitbullproblem.tk/

[GroobySteven]

So Quinn and SeanJ - do you both believe in a handgun ban?
seanchai

[seanj]

So Quinn and SeanJ - do you both believe in a handgun ban?
seanchai

i believe in restrictions but not a complete ban.

[DJ_Asia]

Heres some insight from a former owner of a breed that ate Pits for lunch.

I used to own a 140lb male solid black Cane Corso( http://images.google.com/images?sour...so&sa=N&tab=wi ).They originate from Italy and have a rep for being highly aggresive.They are not recognized by the AKC,which is a blessing,as the AKC prefers to breed the work ethic out of most dogs.

There is an orginazation in US called the American Rare Breed Association(ARBA),who hold shows for rare non AKC breeds.Besides the Corso,you will find other dogs that would make aPit piss his panties..The Presa Canario(Canary Island Fighting dog)Tosa Inu( a150-225 lb silent ring fighter from Japan) Fila Brasileiro or Brasilian Mastino(generally regarded as the msot aggresive breed on earth) Dogue de bordeaux(French Mastino)The
Dogo Argentino(A solid white 120lb.pit looking mastiff from Argentina who hunt jaguars)....and the list continues....All these breeds are considered "hands off" meaning the judge wont touch the animal.If she wants to see the bite structure of a dog she will ask the owner to open the mouth or dewlap for her/him.

On to the point.When I resided in Los Angeles,I lived in a predominant latino area,very near E.LA,and on a regular basis,dudes would roll up while I was walking my dog and say something like.."yo man yo dog is big...wanna fight him against my Pit?"....

I raised my dog since he was 8 weeks old and consideed him my child,and NEVER would I ever fight him.These clowns are idiots,and to find the issue w/ Pits look no further than the gangbangers who have small dick complex and need a little macho boost by fighting their animals.

My dog was never allowed to see anyone walk thru the front door.If I had company he would be put away,the company sat down on the couch and then my dog would enter with me and understand that this person was a welcomed guest.Because of this training he was very protective and highly aggresive towards strangers.
He was the smartest,most obediant,loyal companion I ever knew,and it killed me to put him down after only 8 years due to hip failure.To this day his photos hang on my wall here in Thailand,his ashes are here with me and a tattoo of his name is in the works.

However he was very aggresive w/ other male dogs and men,esp. men of color or in uniforms.He also was a great protector.Once I was walking him w/ a female friend and her male rednose pit(the pit and my dog were best buds...go figure that one) in a wooded park near the Arroyo Seco area of LA and 2 dudes jumped out of a parked semi trailer,their intent wasnt good,however,neither had time to rob or mug us or worse.My dog immediately charged them silently,and only after both men did a quick jump back up into the trailer did he start to go ballistic.His goal was to protect me,and he served his duty well.The Pit arrived a few seconds behind,and my friend and I quickly got the hell outta there.

A law banning Pits is insane.In the wrong hands a Chihauhau would be a mean vicious animal.If you ban Pits thes assholes will just go get a different more aggresive breed,and make the govt. ban those too.

If you wanna solve the problem figure out a way to license owners prior to owning a dog.But banning a cool breed like the Pit is just another example of a short sighted government trying to solve a problem with a stupid solution.

DJ Asia

[GroobySteven]

So Quinn and SeanJ - do you both believe in a handgun ban?
seanchai

i believe in restrictions but not a complete ban.

Ok Fair enough - so Quinn presumbably a complete ban?
seanchai

[seanj]

A law banning Pits is insane.In the wrong hands a Chihauhau would be a mean vicious animal.If you ban Pits thes assholes will just go get a different more aggresive breed,and make the govt. ban those too.

If you wanna solve the problem figure out a way to license owners prior to owning a dog.But banning a cool breed like the Pit is just another example of a short sighted government trying to solve a problem with a stupid solution.

DJ Asia

its too bad more people dont know the true pit bull...they have this preconcieved notion that pits are these viscous killing machines just waiting to atack anything in its path...when in fact pits have been bread from the begining, back in the early 1800s, with a strong bite inhibition towards humans and were known for their loving devotion and trustworthy nature with humans.

heres just a couple of the myths about pit bulls.....

MYTH: All Pit Bulls are mean and vicious.

It is reported on temperament tests conducted by the American Temperament Test Society that Pit Bulls had a passing rate of 82% or better -- compared to only 77% of the general dog population.

These temperament tests consist of putting a dog through a series of unexpected situations, some involving strangers.

Any signs of unprovoked aggression or panic in these situations result in failure of the test. The achievement of Pit Bulls in this study disproves that they are inherently aggressive to people. (Please visit ATTS.org)

MYTH: A Pit Bull that shows aggression towards an animal will go for people next.

"Many working breeds have antipathy towards other animals - coonhounds go mad at the sight of a raccoon, foxhounds will not hesitate to tear a dog-like fox to shreds, greyhounds live to chase and maul rabbits and even dog-like coyotes. Even the ever-friendly beagle will slaughter a rabbit, given the chance.

And yet the greyhound, coon and foxhound and beagle are among the friendliest of breeds towards humans. And it is the same with the pit bulldog. His work through the years has been control of other animals - never humans. A correct pit bull is more often than not submissive toward all humans, and adores children.

MYTH: American Pit Bull Terriers lock their jaws.

Dr. Brisbin: "The few studies which have been conducted of the structure of the skulls, mandibles and teeth of pit bulls show that, in proportion to their size, their jaw structure and thus its inferred functional morphology, is no different than that of any breed of dog.

There is absolutely no evidence for the existence of any kind of "locking mechanism" unique to the structure of the jaw and/or teeth of the American Pit Bull Terrier.

[MacShreach]

uh-huh.

http://www.city-journal.org/html/9_2_scared_of_pit.html

[seanj]

I love my friend's two Pits, but I've known them since they were puppies. Generally though, I don't trust them. Too many of them have been raised by sociopaths.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...aulgallery.DTL

thats too bad.....when you say that you dont trut them are you talking about your friends 2 dogs? or you dont trust pits in general?

[Quinn]

So Quinn and SeanJ - do you both believe in a handgun ban?
seanchai

i believe in restrictions but not a complete ban.

Ok Fair enough - so Quinn presumbably a complete ban?
seanchai

Seanchai, you've, in effect, used an analogy that I had thought of using myself. We've talked about gun laws a couple of times on here before, and I am in favor of a right to own them, much as I am in favor of people owning dogs (stats about living longer, etc.). However, like the restrictions placed on certain classifications of firearms that have become popular with inner city thugs (tech-9s, etc.), I am in favor of restricting access to certain breeds of dog that have become popular with said individuals for the same reason: perceived lethality.

So far as any outright ban is concerned, I would much rather see a regulated system involving permits to own certain breeds of dogs – in specific municipalities – where they have become overly prevalent for the wrong reasons (the Bronx for example). Unfortunately, the cost of implementing this type of strictly regulated system far exceeds – both in financial cost and administrative overhead – the cost of an outright ban. Given a choice between an outright ban and no restrictions, I would have to support the outright ban.

-Quinn