Fuck the Police State

[my my my!]

You said there was NO DIFFERENCE.

this is what i said:
Nazi era Germany (and the USA since 2001) knew full well, that their foreign and internal policies, were being met with resistance, and sometimes violence.

This is NO DIFFERENT , to the USA's policies of about the last 30-40 years. Done under the guise of protecting American Interests.

There is a difference to the actual policies...

There is no difference, in the knowing they would piss people off, just to protect their own interests. Still going ahead with it. creating enemies as a result. resulting in THE NEED FOR A PROTECTION DEPARTMENT , to deal with the internal issues caused by the incursions into other countries.

That's the similarity.

I'm not saying "The USA is exactly like the police state of Nazi Germany" , I'm saying they have many things in common.

After all, the necessity for a "protection department" is a big sign along with other similarities, that your government has downright awful internal and foreign policy issues that it needs such a department. The other ones that have seen the necessity of such a "department" are other police states as well. You as a country know you've messed up quite a bit, when your own people are enough of a danger to necessitate such a department.

you want the USA to slaughter Muslims as approved policy, for you to finally consider it a police state, or as sign that it is becoming one? By all means. think like that if you want.

[TempestTS]

The systematic suppression of dissent by laws punishing strictly political speech?

Ever hear of the Occupy movement ? Ever hear what happens to protesters protesting big corporations or banks... how their free speech is suppressed or how completely over the top the paramilitary police response is... hell half the time these days the police response out numbers the protesters - why the fuck would that be? - oh yeah I forgot - "Fear and Intimidation"

Apparently its ok to camp out for a playstation or superbowl tickets but not if you want to protest bankers. And dont give me any bullshit about it was for public health and safety because of weather conditions... ever see shoppers camped out at walmart before black Friday before Xmas?

Food for thought?

Here is a photo of the police response to the McDonalds protest for higher wages -- a bunch of minimum wage fry cooks and high school kids gets met by a massive police force that looks like its battle ready for any war. And all they wanted to do was protest that their wages were so low that it wasnt even possible to live on them.

Go ahead tell me thats not over the top - tell me that wasnt done specifically to intimidate - tell me that it was necessary - go on tell me...

[my my my!]

Ever hear of the Occupy movement ? Ever hear what happens to protesters protesting big corporations or banks... how their free speech is suppressed or how completely over the top the paramilitary police response is... hell half the time these days the police response out numbers the protesters - why the fuck would that be? - oh yeah I forgot - "Fear and Intimidation"

Apparently its ok to camp out for a playstation or superbowl tickets but not if you want to protest bankers. And dont give me any bullshit about it was for public health and safety because of weather conditions... ever see shoppers camped out at walmart before black Friday before Xmas?

Food for thought?

Here is a photo of the police response to the McDonalds protest for higher wages -- a bunch of minimum wage fry cooks and high school kids gets met by a massive police force that looks like its battle ready for any war. And all they wanted to do was protest that their wages were so low that it wasnt even possible to live on them.

Go ahead tell me thats not over the top - tell me that wasnt done specifically to intimidate - tell me that it was necessary - go on tell me...

Exactly Tempest.

They're going overboard, they've been going overboard. They will continue to go overboard, And it will take some of the people on this board, a baton to the face during a routing traffic stop or getting tackled to the ground and hit with a closed fist for jaywalking, to realize the police and other law enforcement are indeed practicing tactics generally associated with "Police States"

The fact they're dressed in full riot gear and assuming the worst from people, treating everyone as potential rioter, or thug. They believe everyone is a potential criminal, instead of thinking , "we shall protect the good citizens from the criminals". Innocent until proven guilty, is but a relic of the past. Now you have to go out of your way to prove your innocence. the Burden is on you , to make the "people" aka the District Attorney see the error in their ways.



Our government approves of this. As they do very little to punish these "peace officers". That in itself is "police state"-ish. When the government , short of encouraging this behavior, allows it to happen.

Add that to the dismal USA foreign policy of creating more problems than they solve. In the meantime , creating more populations that have a real anger towards the USA.

I agree with you 100% Tempest.

[trish]

to attain that kind of power over a country it can be very a slow process - power is seized slowly - going too fast results in civil war but take a little freedom away at a time and it gets hard to notice...

So who’s garnering all this power over the country? How long can they take? This has been going on 30-40-50 years, right? So they must be getting pretty old by now. Who is it? The head of the NSA? The director is appointed by Secretary of Defense and approved by the President. The turnover is too frequent, so it can't be the director. The Secretary of Defense and the President turnover too frequently as well...can’t be them. Perhaps it's the agency itself. It has some sort of personality of its own...an artificial intelligence. Yeah, that’s the ticket.

Ever hear of the Occupy movement ?

Yes, I was a participant.

Ever hear what happens to protesters protesting big corporations or banks... how their free speech is suppressed or how completely over the top the paramilitary police response is... hell half the time these days the police response out numbers the protesters - why the fuck would that be?

This was of course an over reaction of the local police. They weren’t ordered by the NSA, or Homeland Security. So who is it then, making the move to gain absolute political power and turn us into a true police state? The Governor of California maybe? A Wall-Street Cabal.

Tempest wants us to force the two houses, the president and the supreme court of the U.S. government to resign (as in Iceland) because police in Berkeley over react to an Occupy protest. That just doesn't make sense.

If police states “exercise rigid and repressive controls over social, economic and political life of the population” then who’s doing the exercising here. To have a police state you have to have someone or something exercising the police.

[TempestTS]

So who’s garnering all this power over the country? How long can they take? This has been going on 30-40-50 years, right? So they must be getting pretty old by now. Who is it? The head of the NSA? The director is appointed by Secretary of Defense and approved by the President. The turnover is too frequent, so it can't be the director. The Secretary of Defense and the President turnover too frequently as well...can’t be them. Perhaps it's the agency itself. It has some sort of personality of its own...an artificial intelligence. Yeah, that’s the ticket.

Yes, I was a participant.
This was of course an over reaction of the local police. They weren’t ordered by the NSA, or Homeland Security. So who is it then, making the move to gain absolute political power and turn us into a true police state? The Governor of California maybe? A Wall-Street Cabal.

Tempest wants us to force the two houses, the president and the supreme court of the U.S. government to resign (as in Iceland) because police in Berkeley over react to an Occupy protest. That just doesn't make sense.

If police states “exercise rigid and repressive controls over social, economic and political life of the population” then who’s doing the exercising here. To have a police state you have to have someone or something exercising the police.

A Wall Street Cabal ?

Why yes - havent you heard what Ive been saying

Who is gathering power - banks and corporations - warned about by Thomas Jefferson and just as strongly by Eisenhower...

Protests of banks and corporations are being met by massive police forces - who is calling the shots here and why are they responding en-mass ? If its our elected officials then why are they protecting the corporations more than the people?

you "were" a member of the Occupy movement - I still am

Why did you stop? Occupy has barely scratched the surface there is much more to be done... did the cops scare you away or was it because even a large group of people made hardly difference at all against the control of the mega corporations and massive banks?

Do you think it was only in Berkley the cops over reacted ? You realize I can give examples all day long... Lets not bring it to that - accept that its much more wide spread than an isolated incident - if you were in Occupy you know that to be completely true

Do I want to ask the government to step down - NO - I want it to represent the people and I feel that it has failed to do so for quite some time -

Here are the choices for those who govern

Do your job - represent the people for the good of the people - but them before all else
If you cant do your job step down and let someone worthy of leading do the job
If you wont drop out you will eventually be forced out

This is history - the world over - and yes its simple

[trish]

Well you heard here first. A cabal of Wall Street banks have taken over the nation's law enforcement agencies and are exercising rigid and repressive controls over social, economic and political life of the population.

[TempestTS]

Well you heard here first. A cabal of Wall Street banks have taken over the nation's law enforcement agencies and are exercising rigid and repressive controls over social, economic and political life of the population.

Not what I said - not at all - now Im not sure I believe you were part of the occupy movement as you said you were.

Do I need to go over how powerful banks and corporations are and how strongly they influence elections yet again...

Have you so lost this debate that are left to misdirection and mockery to make your point?

and DO you really remember Occupy ?


six-month anniversary of the start of Occupy Wall Street…When the police moved in to the park that night, in formation and with batons, to arrest a massive number of nonviolent protesters, the chaos was terrifying.

[broncofan]

this is what i said:
Nazi era Germany (and the USA since 2001) knew full well, that their foreign and internal policies, were being met with resistance, and sometimes violence.

This is NO DIFFERENT , to the USA's policies of about the last 30-40 years. Done under the guise of protecting American Interests.

There is a difference to the actual policies...

There is no difference, in the knowing they would piss people off, just to protect their own interests. Still going ahead with it. creating enemies as a result. resulting in THE NEED FOR A PROTECTION DEPARTMENT , to deal with the internal issues caused by the incursions into other countries.

That's the similarity.

I'm not saying "The USA is exactly like the police state of Nazi Germany" , I'm saying they have many things in common.

After all, the necessity for a "protection department" is a big sign along with other similarities, that your government has downright awful internal and foreign policy issues that it needs such a department. The other ones that have seen the necessity of such a "department" are other police states as well. You as a country know you've messed up quite a bit, when your own people are enough of a danger to necessitate such a department.

you want the USA to slaughter Muslims as approved policy, for you to finally consider it a police state, or as sign that it is becoming one? By all means. think like that if you want.

I'm sorry but this is one of the most asinine things I've ever read in this section. Because our country has a department dedicated to internal security, that makes it a police state? Only Nazi Germany and other police states have agencies or departments focused on domestic based threats? If you are going to choose a parallel, why not choose something that only the country you are making the comparison to has?

I am sure that just about every Western country and many Eastern ones have similar departments to deal with domestic terror threats. Would you like me to compile a list of agencies that handle terrorist threats in other countries? Edit: Wikipedia has already done it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counter..._organizations

What's next, you're going to tell us that Nazi Germany also had an equivalent of the department of transportation and since we do to we're a police state?

Trish is also not saying that the United States must "slaughter muslims as approved policy" for our foreign policy to trouble her but if you are going to compare the United States to a country whose hallmark was liquidating its own citizens based on racial characteristics, then you should find actual points of comparison. The parallels should be a little tighter than "well they were aggressive and knew other countries might not like that aggressiveness..." This is not a basis for an analogy but a vague and unclear standard.

Finally, of course police aggression against protesters is wrong. The question is whether the directions have come from the top down. Are the protesters being dispersed because the government is trying to prevent their message from being spread or is it a regulation of the time, place, and manner of speech? Back in the 60's police officers used to use violence against protesters based on their message. If we are on a road to police statehood shouldn't the force used be getting worse?

BTW, the wiki list includes agencies aimed at both international and domestic safety.

[TempestTS]

I'm sorry but this is one of the most asinine things I've ever read in this section. Because our country has a department dedicated to internal security, that makes it a police state? Only Nazi Germany and other police states have agencies or departments focused on domestic based threats? If you are going to choose a parallel, why not choose something that only the country you are making the comparison to has?

I am sure that just about every Western country and many Eastern ones have similar departments to deal with domestic terror threats. Would you like me to compile a list of agencies that handle terrorist threats in other countries? Edit: Wikipedia has already done it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counter..._organizations

What's next, you're going to tell us that Nazi Germany also had an equivalent of the department of transportation and since we do to we're a police state?

Trish is also not saying that the United States must "slaughter muslims as approved policy" for our foreign policy to trouble her but if you are going to compare the United States to a country whose hallmark was liquidating its own citizens based on racial characteristics, then you should find actual points of comparison. The parallels should be a little tighter than "well they were aggressive and knew other countries might not like that aggressiveness..." This is not a basis for an analogy but a vague and unclear standard.

Finally, of course police aggression against protesters is wrong. The question is whether the directions have come from the top down. Are the protesters being dispersed because the government is trying to prevent their message from being spread or is it a regulation of the time, place, and manner of speech? Back in the 60's police officers used to use violence against protesters based on their message. If we are on a road to police statehood shouldn't the force used be getting worse?

BTW, the wiki list includes agencies aimed at both international and domestic safety.

I think the point that was being made was that our the department we have to deal with domestic and overseas threats has grown overtly large and is viewed by most of the European countries you cite as having similar agencies that ours is growing out of control...

Police response force getting stronger - Holy FUCK!!! have you seen how they are armed these days??? - the armored troop carriers - the massive battle armor and armaments ? how can you possibly say its the same

[broncofan]

I think the point that was being made was that our the department we have to deal with domestic and overseas threats has grown overtly large and is viewed by most of the European countries you cite as having similar agencies that ours is growing out of control...

Police response force getting stronger - Holy FUCK!!! have you seen how they are armed these days??? - the armored troop carriers - the massive battle armor and armaments ? how can you possibly say its the same

He said that only a country that is a police state necessitates an agency like the department of homeland security. You know before the department of homeland security was created, the FBI handled all domestic terror threats. It only made sense to separate those functions after a major attack on our homeland.

I am saying I don't think the actual violence police officers use in putting down what they view as disturbances has gotten worse. They may be more heavily armed to ward off threats, but vietnam war protests were often very violent, as were labor disputes, which frequently led to deaths in the early 20th century.