Fuck the Police State

[the_unnatural]

Maybe the title of this thread should be, Fuck, the cops seem kind of out-of-hand these days.

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/...icle-1.1871486

[TempestTS]

Maybe the title of this thread should be, Fuck, the cops seem kind of out-of-hand these days.

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/...icle-1.1871486

Murder by cop - the man was being very passive even while they were hassling him - he made no threatening motions or statements there was no reason for a half dozen cops to drag him to the ground including one using a choke hold and applying his full body weight to it the cop had his feet off the ground and his forearm against the mans wind pipe almost immediately and rode him all the way to the ground. Then the police ignored his pleading that he couldn't breathe long after the situation was under control...

the person filming, despite being a reasonable distance away was asked repeatedly to move farther away - no doubt because of the camera - you dont need a 30 ft perimeter there was no danger and the situation was completely controlled by the police - they just didnt want to be seen or heard on video in any detail.

The person filming did a great job, kept a level head, was polite and complied with requests even the unreasonable request to leave his bike behind which was nearly within arms reach.

The cop with the choke hold should face charges - manslaughter at very least... all the others that didnt act to stop him are accessories to the crime.

But we all know how this turns out - internal investigation - no comment - paid leave and re assigned with out being punished to a different area quietly after the media sensation dies down.

Yeah fuck em... A man died who didnt need to.

[the_unnatural]

Well, he looked threatening, so I guess that kind of excessive force was necessary.

[trish]

Yes. Police in many communities are out of control. The exact opposite of under control of a central authority directing their actions to rigidly and repressively control our social, economic and political lives. What we find instead is too many incidents of ill-trained, prejudiced and mean spirited police overreacting to minor or imagined infractions. This does not meet the definition of a "police state." It is the the expected consequence of an electorate that votes for the politician who promises to get tough on crime, get tough on crime, get tough on "illegals" and put more police on the streets. Cries of revolution are idiot-illogic. The problems is that not enough Americans understand the root causes of criminal activities and/or are unwilling to address them.

A better and more constructive name for this thread would indeed be "Fuck the Cops". Better yet, instead of wasting time accusing the U.S.(or a cabal of Wall Street bankers) of directing law enforcement agencies on every level (from the smallest municipality to the FBI) to rigidly and repressively control our social, economic and political lives we could instead discuss those aspects of our social, economic and political lives that encourages the majority of the electorate to vote for more guns, more police, more prisons and tougher policies.

[Cuchulain]

Good thread. It's a topic that we should all be aware of. A few months ago I watched a YouTube vid of a cop beating the Hell out of some poor bastard for no apparent reason. Then I watched another and another and... I was shocked at how many vids like that have been posted. Documentation of police misconduct includes intimidation, threats, brutal violence, false arrest and, all too frequently, death. Most of the time, the offending cops get away with it. Their own departments investigate and clear them. Even when they do get fired, they can usually get hired by another police force. Why does this happen? Because, as someone pointed out, Americans are too complacent or scared to do anything about it.

Armed rebellion ain't the answer. Not nearly enough folks are willing to be that extreme. I think the best thing we can do is demonstrated by the type of vids I mentioned. Pick up a camera and film every police encounter you see. It takes guts - cops are NOT fond of being filmed. Post the ones that show cops 'behaving badly' on the web. It doesn't seem like enough, I know, but it gets the message out. The police are forced to respond. The trend of people filming cops has been a driving force in many police departments putting cameras in patrol cars and even on officers. Cops are less likely to act up when they know they are being filmed.

Check out http://photographyisnotacrime.com/ I think it's an important site. And BE CAREFUL OUT THERE.

[fred41]

What we find instead is too many incidents of ill-trained, prejudiced and mean spirited police overreacting to minor or imagined infractions. This does not meet the definition of a "police state."

This.
It's not always training either...any type of law enforcement job is going to attract overly macho assholes, people that need to make up for short comings, sadists, etc.
Pedophiles try to get jobs with children...sadists will get attracted to jobs like this. It's the dept's job to weed out the bad apples, but it's impossible to do 100% of the time.
In this particular case, I believe, the officer used a choke hold, that training dictates - can not be used. There were enough officers there that they could have taken him down by his arms...
...but...my argument would have been - why bother with that anyway? -
The man was selling cigarettes.
crime of the century.
Staten Island has plenty of real crime and they focus on this? How about realizing what to go after and what to ignore, to help keep the local community on your side...and it's not trickle down from the administration either, since our Mayor here is now Bill De Blasio...just Google him.

Since the beginning of time, local state, city and town law enforcement has had stories like this, and they always will. But now with cell phones and internet, and other social media, we have more access...a good thing...but that doesn't mean these things all necessarily tie together.

[fred41]

The trend of people filming cops has been a driving force in many police departments putting cameras in patrol cars and even on officers. Cops are less likely to act up when they know they are being filmed.

Inherently true.
Also a very useful trend for training future law enforcement.

One other thing folks - when you see a video or read a story - of a particular incident, don't always take it at face value - do your own research and find out if what you are seeing is the whole story...sometimes it is....sometimes it's not. It's amazing that we have search engines at our finger tips and people still don't use them.

[trish]

Excellent post Cuchulain...and an excellent suggestion.

The problem is not that we’re a police state (which would imply that these examples of brutality were orchestrated) but rather we’re a nation with too many random and brutal incidences of police misconduct. This is no doubt a result of social ills__some already identified and some yet to be identified.

I’m not sure we can attribute all this emphasis on putting more police on the streets to fear. Yes there’s a lot of fear mongering, but crime is actually down. I don’t meet a lot of voters who are genuinely afraid to walk the streets or are fixated on fear. Most only think about it when it comes up in a political context. What I do meet is people who project testosterone laden personalities. People who like to talk a big game and walk with swagger. People whose reaction to any social ill or problem is to get tough on it. Too much poverty? Those lazy louts should get jobs. Children crossing our southern border? Put more soldiers on the border, increase the number of border guards. Too many drugs? Build more prisons. Establish mandatory sentences.

What America has is an identity crises. We’re a nation of couch potatoes who wannabe tough guys.

[TempestTS]

cops with dash cams and body cams only go so far - already there is a growing trend to having these cameras suddenly "malfunction"

Such as this officer who shot and killed a 19 yo girl during his 3rd camera malfunction - all 3 "malfunctions" were during incidents involving the use of force...

apparently the rest of the department isnt saying anything - its all internal - so much for judical review and checks and balances - one might even say they protect their own and are above the law but that couldnt happen here - I mean Trish says if it did our elected officials would listen to the voters and these types of incidents would be long gone by now - I better add that was sarcasm or she's likely to misquote me on it in the future.

http://thefreethoughtproject.com/cop...p-malfunction/

[trish]

The politicians ARE listening. What they're hearing is people want more police, more guards, more prisons and tougher policies. Instead of advocating revolution, I'm suggesting we change our collective attitude. Don't vote for these policies and the numbskulls who advocate them. Currently that would mean voting against the prevailing culture. But hey, you're a rebel; you can do it. But not voting isn't enough. You also have to vote. You got to find your local candidates who support sane policies and support them.