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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by scroller
    Quote Originally Posted by White_Male_Canada
    Care to disprove the 500 containers of Sarin and Mustard gas found,so far?
    Sure, that's easy, too.

    They probably would have been intended for chemical attacks during the Iran-Iraq War, said David Kay, who headed the U.S. weapons-hunting team in Iraq from 2003 until early 2004.

    He said experts on Iraq's chemical weapons are in "almost 100 percent agreement" that sarin nerve agent produced from the 1980s would no longer be dangerous.

    "It is less toxic than most things that Americans have under their kitchen sink at this point," Kay said.

    And any of Iraq's 1980s-era mustard would produce burns, but it is unlikely to be lethal, Kay said.
    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060623/...iraq_s_weapons
    Kay fucked up as did the UN and the Big Lie of the left is now exposed. They can`t hide their tracks. Try as you might it`s too late. The left are collectively fucked this mid-term in Nov.

    March 2003 UN report Iraq Weapons of Mass Destruction page 77 (Page 79 of the pdf file), paragraph 1 of the report http://www.un.org/Depts/unmovic/documents/6mar.pdf :

    “ The Sulfur Mustard contained in artillery shells that had been stored for over 12 years, had been found by UNMOVIC to be still of high purity. It is possible that viable filled artillery shells and aerial bombs still remain in Iraq. "


    BBC
    "Our story starts 90 years ago. The Great War claimed over 15 million lives and focused on a narrow strip of land in Belgium and France.
    This intense trench warfare led to constant shelling by both sides, but not every bomb fired exploded. Hundreds of thousands failed to detonate...

    Every year more than 30 people are killed on the battlefields of Europe after disturbing or picking up unexploded bombs and shells.

    Some of these shells contain deadly Mustard Gas and Phosgene. Chemical shells left over from World War 1 that are still as deadly as the day they were fired.

    Inside the high security chemical warfare lab, bomb teams work four hour shifts inside special chemical suits as they take the gas shells apart and destroy the chemicals."

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/insideout/south...eek_four.shtml
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  2. #22
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    Default Re: Hamdan vs Rumsfeld USSC ( YES ! )

    Quote Originally Posted by White_Male_Canada
    So, let`s add that to the pile too. We have tons of yellow cake uranium at Al-Tuwaitha,over 500 containers of Sarin and Mustard gas ( to date and a violation of 1441) , over 1.5 tons of highly enriched uranium,we have documented evidence from Saddam`s own IIS that prove he trained aproximately 7000 foreign terrorists,we know Saddam harboured terrorists fleeing from Afghanistan (Zarqawi), Ramsy Yosef was given an Iraqi passport when he and his gang entered the USA to detonate a truck bomb in the parking of the WTC ,etc,etc.
    The research facility at Tuwaitha held 1.8 tons of low-enriched uranium and several tons of natural and depleted uranium. Until March 2003, it was under seal and regularly inspected by the IAEA. It was not found, because it was not hidden.

    500+ artillery shells containing sarin and mustard gas were found were found by U.S. Army troops buried in the desert near the Iranian border. The declassified intelligence report documenting the discovery of these munitions speculates that they were abandoned by Iraqi troops redeploying after the end of the Iran-Iraq war in August 1988. There is no evidence that the Hussein regime maintained any record of the locations of these munitions. The shells were in a highly degraded state, and as WMD expert David Kay has pointed out, the gas was not weaponizable at this stage. Mustard gas does not have a shelf life of 100 years.

    No one has found 1.5 tons of highly enriched uranium in Iraq.

    There is no documentary evidence that Iraq's IIS trained foreign fighters at the Salman Pak research facility. Two Iraqi intelligence defectors have alleged that 50 to 60 foreign fighters at a time were put through a six-month training course at Salman Pak. These allegations have not yet been verified.

    Abu Musab al-Zarqawi was involved wih a miltant anti-Kurdish group called Ansar al-Islam, which maintained training facilities in northeastern Iraq, near the Iranian border. Ansar controlled several villages north of the 36th parallel in an area that was not under the direct control of the Hussein government, due to Operation Northern Watch. In fact, Ansar gained control of this territory under Iranian artillery support. A 2004 CIA report stated, "There’s no conclusive evidence the Saddam Hussein regime had harbored Zarqawi."

    On September 1, 1992, after leaving the Khaldan training camp in Afghanistan, Ramzi Ahmed Yousef entered the United States with a false Iraqi passport. Several months later, Yousef initiated the first World Trade Center attack. Yousef is a Pakistani born in Kuwait, and there is no evidence that he has ever entered Iraq.



  3. #23
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    Default Re: Hamdan vs Rumsfeld USSC ( YES ! )

    Quote Originally Posted by thombergeron
    Quote Originally Posted by White_Male_Canada
    So, let`s add that to the pile too. We have tons of yellow cake uranium at Al-Tuwaitha,over 500 containers of Sarin and Mustard gas ( to date and a violation of 1441) , over 1.5 tons of highly enriched uranium,we have documented evidence from Saddam`s own IIS that prove he trained aproximately 7000 foreign terrorists,we know Saddam harboured terrorists fleeing from Afghanistan (Zarqawi), Ramsy Yosef was given an Iraqi passport when he and his gang entered the USA to detonate a truck bomb in the parking of the WTC ,etc,etc.
    The research facility at Tuwaitha held 1.8 tons of low-enriched uranium and several tons of natural and depleted uranium. Until March 2003, it was under seal and regularly inspected by the IAEA. It was not found, because it was not hidden.

    500+ artillery shells containing sarin and mustard gas were found were found by U.S. Army troops buried in the desert near the Iranian border. The declassified intelligence report documenting the discovery of these munitions speculates that they were abandoned by Iraqi troops redeploying after the end of the Iran-Iraq war in August 1988. There is no evidence that the Hussein regime maintained any record of the locations of these munitions. The shells were in a highly degraded state, and as WMD expert David Kay has pointed out, the gas was not weaponizable at this stage. Mustard gas does not have a shelf life of 100 years.

    No one has found 1.5 tons of highly enriched uranium in Iraq.

    There is no documentary evidence that Iraq's IIS trained foreign fighters at the Salman Pak research facility. Two Iraqi intelligence defectors have alleged that 50 to 60 foreign fighters at a time were put through a six-month training course at Salman Pak. These allegations have not yet been verified.

    Abu Musab al-Zarqawi was involved wih a miltant anti-Kurdish group called Ansar al-Islam, which maintained training facilities in northeastern Iraq, near the Iranian border. Ansar controlled several villages north of the 36th parallel in an area that was not under the direct control of the Hussein government, due to Operation Northern Watch. In fact, Ansar gained control of this territory under Iranian artillery support. A 2004 CIA report stated, "There’s no conclusive evidence the Saddam Hussein regime had harbored Zarqawi."

    On September 1, 1992, after leaving the Khaldan training camp in Afghanistan, Ramzi Ahmed Yousef entered the United States with a false Iraqi passport. Several months later, Yousef initiated the first World Trade Center attack. Yousef is a Pakistani born in Kuwait, and there is no evidence that he has ever entered Iraq.
    Yellow cake uranium is a wmd,period. Ivan Oelrich, a physicist at the Federation of American Scientists, told the Associated Press at the time that the low-enriched uranium stockpile could have produced enough highly enriched uranium to make a single nuclear bomb.

    Binary Sarin shells have an indefinite shelf life:
    The most interesting discovery has been a 152mm binary Sarin artillery projectile—containing a 40 percent concentration of Sarin—which insurgents attempted to use as an Improvised Explosive Device (IED). The existence of this binary weapon not only raises questions about the number of viable chemical weapons remaining in Iraq and raises the possibility that a larger number of binary, long-lasting chemical weapons still exist. cia.gov/cia/reports/iraq_wmd_2004/chap5_annxF.html


    There are liretally millions of pages of documentary evidence . Document ISGP-2003-00028868 details IIS plans to train non Iraqi Foreign Arab Terrorists in February 2003 to help the Iraqis in their war against the coalition forces. Document ISGQ-2004-00060580 is a memo that contains a direct order form Saddam Hussein in the middle of the war asking to treat the Arab Feedayeen i.e. the non Iraqi Foreign Arab Terrorists as equal as the Iraqi soldier in salary and benefits and not just any soldier but like those in the Special Forces.http://70.168.46.200/ Saddam direct connection with the Taliban/70.168.46.200/released/03-22-06/ISGP-2003-00014127.pdf,etc,etc.

    Zarqawi was treated in a Baghdad hospital at the beset of the Hussiens.http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/02/05/spr...alqaeda.links/
    " General Intelligence Department, which generally earns high marks for efficiency—had been trailing him ever since he left Jordanian soil for Afghanistan, and then Afghan soil for Iraq. It is from this source that we know that Zarqawi was in Baghdad at least as early as June 2002, almost a year before the invasion. Indeed, as the Senate intelligence committee report has confirmed, it was in that month that the G.I.D. contacted the Saddam Hussein regime to "inform" the Iraqis that this very dangerous fellow was on their territory. Given the absolute police-state condition of Iraq at that time, it is in any case impossible to believe that such a person was in town, so to speak, incognito." http://img.slate.com/id/2143611/

    Yousef was travelling on a "clean" Iraqi passport. The IIS doesn`t hand those out to any tom dick or harry. " The two ringleaders both had connections to Iraq. The mastermind, Ramzi Ahmed Yousef, entered the U.S. on an Iraqi passport and was known to his associates as "Rashid the Iraqi." It was he who persuaded the bombers to make their target the World Trade Center. The other man, Abdul Rahman Yasin, fled to Baghdad, where, ABC News reported in 1994, he had been put on the government payroll. He is believed to be still at large in Iraq. "The majority of senior law-enforcement officers in New York believe that Iraq was involved," Jim Fox, who ran the FBI's investigation of the World Trade Center bombing" A co-conspirator boogying to Baghdad. Wall Street Journal OnlineMonday, September 24, 2001 12:01

    Ain`t this November gonna be sweet



  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by White_Male_Canada
    March 2003 UN report Iraq Weapons of Mass Destruction page 77 (Page 79 of the pdf file), paragraph 1 of the report http://www.un.org/Depts/unmovic/documents/6mar.pdf :
    Kay's data is more recent and up-to-date than the 2003 U.N. report.



  5. #25
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    Why's North Korea Now Not What Iraq Was Then?

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/marty-...t_b_24490.html

    Whatever happened to Bush's pre-emptive war doctrine?

    At his White House birthday news conference with the Canadian prime minister, W was asked what kind of threat North Korea poses. Just about everything he said about North Korea today, he could also have said about Iraq in 2002 and 2003 -- but didn't.

    Today, Bush says it's difficult to tell what's really going on in a closed society like North Korea.

    But back then, he was swaggeringly confident when purveying the intelligence about Iraq that proved catastrophically unreliable.

    Today, Bush says it's really hard to know what's going on Kim Jung Il's mind -- we don't know his intentions. But Bush had no problem playing clairvoyant to Saddam Hussein; our presidential Great Karnak told us back then that Saddam was planning to give WMD's to Al-Qaeda for use against us.

    Today, Bush says that the best way to deal with the nunclear proliferation threat posed by North Korea is to rely on the nonproliferation security initiative. But in Iraq, the best way wasn't a multinational diplomatic initiative; it was military shock and awe.

    Today, Bush says our message to North Korea is, There is opportunity for you if you verifiably disarm. But when Hans Blix and teams of arms inspectors told Bush they couldn't find WMD's in Iraq, Bush's response to verifiable disarmament was to force the inspectors to leave.

    Today, Bush says the best way to send a message to North Korea is to work with the United Nations. It can't be just the US trying to solve a problem, he says, reminding us that diplomacy takes a while, and that we need to take that time, work in concert with a variety of partners, and send one unified message. But back then, Bush was contemptuous of the UN, dismissed diplomacy, and instead of creating a broad international consensus with a single message, he was forced to resort to a Pontemkin coalition to camouflage his own isolation and deflect attention from the global cacophony.

    So why is North Korea now different from Iraq then?

    Maybe it's because there's no cockamamie neo-con cabal's domino theory to "fix" things in East Asia, like the Iraq war was going to fix things for Israel and the Middle East. Or maybe it's because North Korea has no oil. Or because we have no need for long-term military bases at the top of the Korean peninsula. Or because our armed forces are stretched so thin Iraq that it's unthinkable to task them further. Or because W's polls are so low, the only people who'd cheer a pre-emptive North Korean strike are already for him. Or because W's so pissed at Cheney that Bush is now doing the opposite of what Dick's telling him.

    Or maybe it's because W actually learned something from Iraq.

    (beat)

    Nah.


    "I became insane, with long intervals of horrible sanity." - Poe

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by chefmike
    Why's North Korea Now Not What Iraq Was Then?

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/marty-...t_b_24490.html

    Whatever happened to Bush's pre-emptive war doctrine?

    .
    Why don`t we keep doing the same thing BJ Clinton did and give them nukes.

    Ah, the polemic Fluffington Post and it`s irrelevancy in it`s weak drive by smear.

    The DPRK doesn`t blink without communist China`s permission. Get the picture ? We went to war,China poured in millions of soldiers. But hey,facts never get in the way of Fluffington`s drive by.

    Clinton gave DPRK nukes in 1994 and the DPRK promptly violated the much vaunted treaty, Pyongyang had operated a covert nuclear-weapons program in violation of its 1994 agreement. Under the 1994 Agreed Framework, BJ Clinton provided North Korea with the capacity to produce annually enough fissile material for nearly 100 nuclear bombs.

    In 1998, Pyongyang signaled its renewed belligerence when it launched a nuclear-capable Taepodong-1 missile over Japan. It continued to enrich uranium and later withdrew from the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty. http://www.weeklystandard.com/Conten...oamry.asp?pg=2

    August 31, 1998, Pyongyang fired the Taepodong-1 missile over Japan. Three months later, U.S. officials held the first round of high-level talks in Pyongyang. North Korean leader Kim Jong Il demanded to be rewarded for ceasing his provocations. He was. The following year, U.S. Defense Secretary William Perry visited North Korea to offer normalized relations and a lifting of economic sanctions if Pyongyang froze and eventually dismantled its long-range-missile program and stopped its missile exports. On September 17, 1999, President Clinton eased sanctions against the north. Two months later, a U.S.-led consortium signed a $4.6 billion contract for two Western light-water nuclear reactors for the Stalinist police state. The Clinton administration began shipping food aid to the famine-ridden north, which Pyongyang used to grease its war machine even as ordinary citizens starved.
    http://www.aei.org/events/eventID.13...ent_detail.asp

    The asinine Fluffington post is arguing one solution for every problem that arises and allow for zero deviance from that plan.Typical Stalinists that they are. The Fluffington Post is the equivalent of electronic toilet paper.


    BJ Clinton, "North Korea will freeze and dismantle its nuclear program. South Korea and our allies will be better protected. The entire world will be safer as we slow the spread of nuclear weapons."
    :P :P :P :P :P :P :P
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  7. #27
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    "Soooh. You dink I kan't go Boom Boom long time? I show you!! I make BIG Boom Boom. I reeel man!"
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  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by scroller
    Quote Originally Posted by White_Male_Canada
    March 2003 UN report Iraq Weapons of Mass Destruction page 77 (Page 79 of the pdf file), paragraph 1 of the report http://www.un.org/Depts/unmovic/documents/6mar.pdf :
    Kay's data is more recent and up-to-date than the 2003 U.N. report.
    ...and in total agreement with :

    Kay`s June 29nth testimony before the House Armed Services Committee

    ".... I think the decision to go to war against Iraq was the decision I would have taken. "

    Reply to Congressman Hunter`s question as to the left`s big lie of no wmds,none, in Iraq,

    Kay, "It's not accurate by my personal knowledge."

    Hunter (quoting a colleague): '"We are spending billions of dollars to occupy a country that did not have ANY weapons of mass destruction."'

    Kay: "That's certainly not how I would phrase it, let me say that...We all knew that in Iraq we were going to find chemical weapons.."



  9. #29
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    Nice.

    Actual quote from transcript:

    "MR. KAY: I think -- look, I don't want to get into criticizing your colleagues. We all knew that in Iraq we were going to find chemical weapons produced prior to 1991."



  10. #30
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    In complete agreement about uranium in any form being extremely hazardous. However, the point is that all of the uranium in Iraq prior to March 2003 was in Tuwaitha under direct control of the IAEA. The Hussein government had no uranium in any form in its possession. What happened to those stores after IAEA personnel were withdrawn prior to the invasion is unknown.

    Also, I understand that sarin has an extremely long half-life under laboratory conditions. I actually was talking about mustard. Many years ago I was given a CMA briefing on sulfur mustards, and I’m telling you, they don’t last very long.

    But the debate over how long these materials last is also beside the point, which is that the 500+ artillery shells in question were buried and forgotten in 1988. They are battlefield detritus already reported on in the declassified Deulfer report:

    “While a small number of old, abandoned chemical munitions have been discovered, ISG judges that Iraq unilaterally destroyed its undeclared chemical weapons stockpile in 1991. There are no credible indications that Baghdad resumed production of chemical munitions thereafter, a policy ISG attributes to Baghdad's desire to see sanctions lifted, or rendered ineffectual, or its fear of force against it should WMD be discovered.”

    Deulfer himself, in a June 22 interview on NPR, said, “But the ones which have been found are left over from the Iran-Iraq war. They are almost 20 years old, and they are in a decayed fashion. It is very interesting that there are so many that were unaccounted for, but they do not constitute a weapon of mass destruction, although they could be a local hazard.”

    The Harmony database is, indeed, pretty interesting. But what you have cited here is liretally about 80 pages of documentation. And I don’t know if you read Arabic, but I read a little. Documents ISGP-2003-00028868 and ISGQ-2004-00060580 reference “Arab Fedayeen” but really don’t say “non-Iraqi foreign Arabs.” We don’t really know who comprise the Arab Fedayeen at this point, although it should be noted that the Abu Nidal Organization is often referred to as the Arab Fedayeen. Abu Nidal was a secular Palestinian terrorist who retired to Baghdad in 1999 and was killed under mysterious circumstances in late 2002. It’s plausible that the Arab Fedayeen was Abu Nidal’s bodyguard corps, which was then absorbed by Mukhabarat after his death.

    Also, FMSO states pretty explicitly on the Harmony portal, “The US Government has made no determination regarding the authenticity of the documents, validity or factual accuracy of the information contained therein, or the quality of any translations, when available.”

    I’ve seen the CNN and Slate articles documenting the rumors that Zarqawi was treated in a Baghdad hospital at Saddam Hussein’s insistence. I’m going to go with CIA’s 2004 conclusion, referenced in my earlier post, that Hussein was not harboring Zarqawi. CNN especially has some credibility issues.

    Interestingly, if we look back at the Harmony documents, ISGZ-2004-019920 is apparently a 2002 IIS report on suspicions that an al Qaeda-linked group (al Tawhid) had established a training base in Northern Iraq. It includes grainy pictures of Zarqawi. So if Hussein was harboring Zarqawi, he didn’t tell his secret service.

    Lastly, I don’t know what a “clean” Iraqi passport is supposed t be, but Ramzi Yousef entered the U.S. in 1992 with a forged Iraqi passport. If Yousef was an Iraqi agent, it seems likely that Mukhabarat would have supplied him with a non-Iraqi passport.

    Bombmaker Abdel Rahman Yasin was, in fact, of Iraqi heritage, although he was born in Bloomington, Indiana. And he did flee to Baghdad in 1993. However, the Hussein government offered Yasin to the U.S. authorities on several occasions in the 1990s, asking only that the U.S. declare Iraqi non-involvement in the World Trade Center bombing. According to former State Department official Kenneth Pollack, the CIA has cleared Iraq of involvement in the attack. We can only speculate as to why the Clinton administration chose not to take custody of Yasin. But again, it seems unlikely that, if Mukhabarat was behind the attack, they would offer an individual with intimate knowledge of the plot to U.S. investigators as a way of clearing Iraq’s name.

    Sorry for the speculation, but the point is that so much of this stuff is still just unknown.



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