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  1. #21
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    Default Re: The next great space mission should be protecting the earth from asteroid impacts

    There is usually money to be made from junk -maybe someone will start a company to re-cycle satellites-? Just out of interest does anything in space 'contaminate' the sides of an object? We see capsules/nodules/shuttles returning to earth, but is it the case that any 'stuff' that might be 'out there' is roasted on the way in to the atmosphere? Or is it only a risk with meteorites/asteroids that might have 'stuff' inside them? Sorry if it sounds a bit confused.



  2. #22
    5 Star Poster sukumvit boy's Avatar
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    Default Re: The next great space mission should be protecting the earth from asteroid impacts

    All space agencies follow a 'clean room ' protocol in assembling space craft. However ,these craft are not sterile in the same sense that surgical instruments are sterile.
    There are two schools of thought on this issue , some say spacecraft , especially those intended for landing on other planets need to be sterile in the medical sense. Others say that is a waste of time and money because bacteria and other micro organisms could not survive the journey or the hostile environment on another planet.
    As to materials coming in from space , true , most are burned up in the heat of atmospheric entry.
    On the other hand , it is estimated that 500 Kg of material from Mars lands on earth every year in the form of material that was originally blasted off Mars by meteorite impacts .
    One goal of our current missions on mars is to see if life may have started on Mars and was later 'seeded' to earth by such impacts.

    http://motherboard.vice.com/blog/let...our-spacecraft

    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/09/sc...clea.html?_r=0
    Which brings us back to the original point of this thread , with a slight detour at 9 Rue Git-le-Coeur , in Paris. Lol
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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  3. #23
    Platinum Poster Ben's Avatar
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    Default Re: The next great space mission should be protecting the earth from asteroid impacts

    Quote Originally Posted by sukumvit boy View Post
    Meanwhile ,however ,a group of concerned astronauts and scientists have had to go begging to try to PRIVATLY FUND a mission to do just that.
    It's called the B612 Mission.
    Data show that asteroids impact earth 3-10 times more frequently than previously thought. In just the last 13 years The Nuclear Test Ban Treaty Organization has recorded 26 impact explosions ranging from 1-600 kilotons , for comparison the Hiroshima blast was 15 kilotons.
    What's protecting us now , mostly "blind luck".
    The first part of the B612 Mission ,for a mere $450 , would put a satellite in an orbit out by Venus that could constantly monitor and track ,and give us as much as 100 years of warning to deflect or destroy a potential city or planet killer asteroid.
    Admittedly ,tracking efforts have been stepped up in the last few years , much of it by amateur astronomers. One of the big problems , however , is that we are only able to monitor a small slice of the sky from here on earth.
    Check out the video and articles.
    http://www.latimes.com/science/scien...,5822355.story

    http://www.jdjournal.com/2014/04/21/...first-thought/#

    B612 Foundation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Runaway climate change is a much bigger concern. And, too, global nuclear conflagration.



  4. #24
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    Default Re: The next great space mission should be protecting the earth from asteroid impacts

    Quote Originally Posted by sukumvit boy View Post
    All space agencies follow a 'clean room ' protocol in assembling space craft. However ,these craft are not sterile in the same sense that surgical instruments are sterile.
    There are two schools of thought on this issue , some say spacecraft , especially those intended for landing on other planets need to be sterile in the medical sense. Others say that is a waste of time and money because bacteria and other micro organisms could not survive the journey or the hostile environment on another planet.
    As to materials coming in from space , true , most are burned up in the heat of atmospheric entry.
    On the other hand , it is estimated that 500 Kg of material from Mars lands on earth every year in the form of material that was originally blasted off Mars by meteorite impacts .
    One goal of our current missions on mars is to see if life may have started on Mars and was later 'seeded' to earth by such impacts.


    Which brings us back to the original point of this thread , with a slight detour at 9 Rue Git-le-Coeur , in Paris. Lol
    Interesting, and thanks for the links. Perhaps we did originate on Mars after all, and fell to earth when it ran out of water, as in the Nicolas Roeg film...Rue Git-le-Coeur has seen some changes! Same with the Rue du Pot de Fer, off the Rue Mouffetard -in either the 1950s or 1960s- where Orwell lived during the Down and Out in Paris and London phase- a friend of mine, now in his 80s knew someone on the Rue Mouffetard who had to hang his cello from the ceiling because the room he rented was so small. I was in Paris last month and will be going again sometime in the next month. Can never get enough of it.

    Did you see this?

    http://vieuxparis.com/en/our-hotel/t...hotel-trailer/



  5. #25
    5 Star Poster sukumvit boy's Avatar
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    Default Re: The next great space mission should be protecting the earth from asteroid impacts

    Thanks for your reply , Ben , agree climate change is a big concern and certainly nuclear arms.
    However , this is about space missions , and the fact that the B612 Mission has had to go begging for private funding to ,maybe , launch a satellite by 2017 , that is clearly the lynch pin to putting together an effective tracking system.
    That's all this is about.
    Of course ,I was fishing to see if there were any other members out there who might be interested in discussing such issues in future threads. It never ceases to amaze me ,the depth of knowledge and experience of our members. So I figured I wouldn't be surprised if a few folks in the aerospace community , or at least a few amateur astronomers popped up.

    Thanks for the great link Stavros . No , I hadn't seen it , lots of good links to related material there too! Didn't know there was a Beat Hotel movie planned . That should be fun. Barry Miles must be happy , years of hanging with a bunch of broke drug fiends finally paying off.



  6. #26
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    Default Re: The next great space mission should be protecting the earth from asteroid impacts

    Not germane exactly to the thread, but re your remark on where it could go, there was an interesting disagreement on BBC Radio 4 this morning about digital technology and robots and how technology can take away people's jobs -there is now a robot that is programmed to make, I think it is 350 burgers an hour; but one commentator (an American -and most of them were) believes there is only so much a robot can do and that the human element will remain important. It might work in production, but he gave the example of UPS or FedEx where a driver delivering packages to homes and businesses is more efficient than a robot would be, and can respond more quickly to sudden disruptions to 'the system'. On the other hand, I believe the idea of manned space travel to far away places like Mars is more likely to be replaced by robots -but can a robot offer a subjective, emotive view of what it is like to stand on Mars? Is this a necessary adjunct to the experience of space travel?

    The programme was derived in part from arguments in this book:

    Amazon.com: The Second Machine Age: Work, Progress, and Prosperity in a Time of Brilliant Technologies (9780393239355): Erik Brynjolfsson, Andrew McAfee: Books@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51V89q3r9zL.@@AMEPARAM@@51V89q3r9zL



  7. #27
    5 Star Poster sukumvit boy's Avatar
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    Default Re: The next great space mission should be protecting the earth from asteroid impacts

    Thanks Stavros , fascinating stuff , as always! That book goes on my Amazon Wish List for sure.
    Yes ,robotics is starting make big advances now , after many years of very slow progress. All the bits and pieces are starting to come together now ,voice recognition, locomotion and so forth ,Hal is just around the corner.
    The price that astronauts on extended missions ,such as to Mars ,would be asked to pay in terms of radiation exposure , is unreasonable. I recently saw some talk about using the water tanks as a shield.
    For now robotics are the way to go . However , due to the 3 to 20 minute on way radio time lag they must be autonomous enough to respond to emergencies without just shutting down.

    And while we're off the subject ...You mentioned George Orwell.
    I really never appreciated him until several years ago a Brit friend of mine , a retired MD in Bangkok , said ,"You're so interested in Burma , have you read Orwell's Burma pieces?"
    Orwell in Burma ? That was a pleasant surprise. As was "Down and Out in Paris and London".

    Fascinating life, Orwell's that is . My friend also ,retired shipboard surgeon with the P&O.


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  8. #28
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    Default Re: The next great space mission should be protecting the earth from asteroid impacts

    Quote Originally Posted by sukumvit boy View Post


    And while we're off the subject ...You mentioned George Orwell.
    I really never appreciated him until several years ago a Brit friend of mine , a retired MD in Bangkok , said ,"You're so interested in Burma , have you read Orwell's Burma pieces?"
    Orwell in Burma ? That was a pleasant surprise. As was "Down and Out in Paris and London".

    Fascinating life, Orwell's that is . My friend also ,retired shipboard surgeon with the P&O.
    Orwell is one of the finest essayists in English, writing transparent prose that someone once likened to having the purity of a glass of water. Two of his essays on his life in Burma -A Hanging, and Shooting an Elephant are masterpieces of observation and moral debate. His long essay Inside the Whale is a bracing critique of English literature in the first half of the 20th century although I think his admiration for Henry Miller is misplaced. Homage to Catalonia remains a major piece of reportage on the Spanish Civil War and is a devastating critique of the left. Highly recommended.



  9. #29
    5 Star Poster sukumvit boy's Avatar
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    Default Re: The next great space mission should be protecting the earth from asteroid impacts

    I read "Burmese Days" and "Shooting an Elephant" , fine writing and a sharp stab at the Colonial system ,but also such an interesting look at Burma and the British in those times.
    I see that I can purchase "The Orwell Reader: Fiction Essays Reportage " new ,for a mere $2.89 on Amazon ,gotta love it!
    I read all of Henry Miller decades ago , aside from the sex I was trying to get a glimpse of the whole 'West Coast Scene' , back in those days. I found his writing refreshing and , I thought , honest and at times very entertaining and funny.
    As I mentioned in an earlier post , turns out it only seemed honest , as far as the sex is concerned , at least. It was all made up , and in real life he was the shy reclusive writer one would expect him to be.



  10. #30
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    Default Re: The next great space mission should be protecting the earth from asteroid impacts

    Killer Robots, or Lethal Autonomous Weapons Systems...where the aim is to ensure that they are not, in fact, autonomous...

    From the BBC

    Killer robots will be debated during an informal meeting of experts at the United Nations in Geneva.
    Two robotics experts, Prof Ronald Arkin and Prof Noel Sharkey, will debate the efficacy and necessity of killer robots.
    The meeting will be held during the UN Convention on Certain Conventional Weapons (CCW).
    A report on the discussion will be presented to the CCW meeting in November.
    This will be the first time that the issue of killer robots, or lethal autonomous weapons systems, will be addressed within the CCW.
    A killer robot is a fully autonomous weapon that can select and engage targets without any human intervention. They do not currently exist but advances in technology are bringing them closer to reality.
    Those in favour of killer robots believe the current laws of war may be sufficient to address any problems that might emerge if they are ever deployed, arguing that a moratorium, not an outright ban, should be called if this is not the case.
    However, those who oppose their use believe they are a threat to humanity and any autonomous "kill functions" should be banned.
    "Autonomous weapons systems cannot be guaranteed to predictably comply with international law," Prof Sharkey told the BBC. "Nations aren't talking to each other about this, which poses a big risk to humanity."
    Prof Sharkey is a member and co-founder of the Campaign Against Killer Robots and chairman of the International Committee for Robot Arms Control.
    Side events at the CCW will be hosted by the Campaign to Stop Killer Robots.
    Automation of warfare Prof Arkin from the Georgia Institute of Technology told the BBC he hoped killer robots would be able to significantly reduce non-combatant casualties but feared they would be rushed into battle before this was accomplished.
    "I support a moratorium until that end is achieved, but I do not support a ban at this time," said Prof Arkin.
    He went on to state that killer robots may be better able to determine when not to engage a target than humans, "and could potentially exercise greater care in so doing".
    Prof Sharkey is less optimistic. "I'm concerned about the full automation of warfare," he says.
    Drones The discussion of drones is not on the agenda as they are yet to operate completely autonomously, although there are signs this may change in the near future.
    The UK successfully tested the Taranis, an unmanned intercontinental aircraft in Australia this year and America's Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (Darpa) has made advances with the Crusher, an unmanned ground combat vehicle, since 2006.
    The MoD has claimed in the past that it currently has no intention of developing systems that operate without human intervention.
    On 21 November 2012 the United States Defense Department issued a directive that, "requires a human being to be 'in-the-loop' when decisions are made about using lethal force," according to Human Rights Watch.
    The meeting of experts will be chaired by French ambassador Jean-Hugues Simon-Michel from 13 to 16 May 2014.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-27343076



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