Cliven Bundy

[Prospero]

Phew... the world and its wife are all in one big conspiracy - and only the militias know the answers. Obama is worst than Hitler by Kitti's reckoning. And of course those nice folk with their guns would welcome a transsexual like Kitty into their ranks, wouldn't they. They'd shoot or lynch her actually...

[kittyKaiti]

Phew... the world and its wife are all in one big conspiracy - and only the militias know the answers. Obama is worst than Hitler by Kitti's reckoning. And of course those nice folk with their guns would welcome a transsexual like Kitty into their ranks, wouldn't they. They'd shoot or lynch her actually...

Because all gun owners are KKK murderers who seek to hang trannies. Stop being a complete dipshit.

I never said Obama was worse than Hitler. Nice try at twisting my comments and adding a crap ton of other words into it. In fact, I never even mentioned Obama.

It is disgusting and unbelievable in this day and age we have morons like you and half the other users in this thread making the absurd, offensive and reverse-racist comments and lies here. Based on every post I've seen from you people, the common view of American gun owners and white people is:

*All whites are racist
*All gun owners are inbred retards and terrorists
*All gun owners are Nazis and murderers
*Anyone who doesn't agree with the federal government is a nutcase conspiracy theorist and a terrorist
*All conservatives are racist Nazis who would kill people
*Condemning government violence is wrong
*Disagreeing with the government is insane

I'm happy at least the majority of your fools live in Britardistan and not here.

[trish]

You're implying the protesters and militia are Nazis, Klansmen and psychopaths.

No you are. I said, “Cliven's not a hero. He's an excuse. He's an excuse for looney, white supremacist, anti-U.S. government, slim[e]balls to get out their guns, wave them around and ejaculate a few rounds of stupidity, ignorance and hatred. They're such magnificent specimens of masculinity, don't you think?”

At no point have I seen any Nazi flags flying at Bundy Ranch. At no point does anyone scream Heil Hitler.

And at no point did I say Cliven and his white supremacist friends Nazis.

And surely, you would be a total idiot to say they are all white supremacists.

I’m sure you can find at least one or two who would deny it.

Your throwing around of race cards is typical of mainstream media to detract from the real issue.

Oh, now I’m the mainstream media? Thanks for the promotion.

The moment you are getting wrecked in a debate, screaming out "RACISM" is your last resort. This has nothing to do with race. This has to do with 200 heavily armed federal agents pointing military combat weapons at a rural family, including children and women to enforce a bureaucratic bullshit grass eating law.

Originally it was about the Federal government attempting to protect an endangered species (just stating the facts, Ma'am...I personally don’t give a shit about tortoises) by re-allocating use of its own land...not Cliven Bundy’s land. Then it was about Cliven illegally grazing his cattle for free on that land. Then it was about the BLM impounding his cattle. Then it was about the white supremacist gun loonies around the nation screaming WACO WACO WACO. Situations evolve. Now it’s about racism. Hey, I didn’t pull the race card (I’m all out of them). Neither did the media. It was the town idiot who brought up the issue of race. It was Cliven Bundy himself who brought it up in his daily radio hour. And his posse comitatus crowd cheered.

[trish]

Kaiti's right, Cliven didn’t literally say, “I believe African-Americans would be better off if they were slaves.” He merely wonders whether they might be better off as slaves, like their happy ancestors were. You know with their families and such, and having something to do...like pickin’ cotton. Never mind that you have to be a moron to believe that a people would be better off under slavery. Never mind that you can’t really call yourself a freedom-lover and at the same time question whether or not slavery might actually be good for some people. Never mind the extent of Cliven’s ignorance as to what slavery in the south was like. In spite of all that, one has to concede that on this particular occasion Cliven didn’t literally endorse slavery. He only wondered about it.

Cliven, however, did literally aver that the negro today has abortions because they (the negro) never learned to pick cotton. But I’m sure Cliven didn’t mean that literally. Substitute “sweep floors” or “shovel shit” for “pick cotton” and I’m sure Cliven would be fine with it.

Cliven did say that he doesn’t recognize the U.S. government. He said that it doesn’t exist. Literally. But then again, I’m sure he didn’t mean it literally. After all, he rides around on horseback in front of a camera carrying a huge American flag. And he does seem to put a lot of stock in the green stuff the U.S. government mints. And his welfare cows seem to love the green stuff that grows on Federally owned lands. You can’t put too much stock in what Cliven literally says, because...you know...he’s a simple man...and he ain’t too good with words.

So when Cliven says, “...I’ve often wondered, are they better off as slaves, picking cotton and having a family life and doing things...”, I know you can’t put a lot of stock in the literal meaning of the statement. It’s the spirit of the thing that counts.

[Prospero]

KittyKaiti wrote: "And Adolf Hitler would be busting in his pants if he had what the U.S. has today to control the population. "

I see this as a direct referenceto the people in power in Washington ... or are you excepting the president?

I did not ay anywhere that all people with gun are racist. I said that the sort of people who you praise are the sort whose prejudice 9along with Mr Bundy's attitudes to Black folk) probably also have a similar dislike of other minorities - Muslims, Gays, the transgendered. Please offer me some evidence that these brave little men of the militias with their gun obsession love girls like you? You despite liberal values - yet in the more liberal parts of america benefit from them. Outside of these areas girls like you would stand a good chance of being lynched... especially if you were also black.

Your aggression in your posts displays pretty strong xenophobic strand I'm afraid with your absurd remarks about britain - and Europe.

Oh and I see in your response to Trish you mention the feds pointing their guns at women and children. I have also seen a clip where one of the brave militiamen said they'd put the girls out front - as a "human shield" so that if the shooting starts the news cameras would show the feds gunning down women. Very Saddam that one...

[Prospero]

I wonder if Kitti is auditioning for a job with Fox? or as a shockjock?

Do you enjoy Fox, Kitty - that big network owned by one of the world's most successful media barons who will align his media empire sides with whichever regime he needs to in order to sustain his revenue flow?

[broncofan]

The issue has evolved from one about whether the federal government had any right to charge grazing fees on government land, to whether the courts were right to issue an injunction against Bundy, to whether the government used too much force in seizing Bundy's cattle, to whether Bundy is a racist.

The people who supported Bundy like Sean Hannity knew better than to defend him once news of his most recent comments were published. The only question is what stop each of his defenders chose to exit the crazy train at. There was never a single issue to defend.

The government waited too long to take action against Bundy. They did not use the force necessary to do what a court said they had a right to do. They did not prevent Bundy from continue to break the law.

And who is this rancher patriot they were defending? Someone who thinks African-Americans had a family life under slavery. What is most appalling about his analogy is that he seems to have no conception of what life must have been like under our system of slavery. I don't know personally or viscerally what it must have been like, but I know there's just about nothing worse than a system where people are chattel and used as personal property.

It's time to exit this train Kitty. There will be other issues and other people with some scrap of decency to defend. Bundy's not that guy.

[kittyKaiti]

KittyKaiti wrote: "And Adolf Hitler would be busting in his pants if he had what the U.S. has today to control the population. "

I see this as a direct referenceto the people in power in Washington ... or are you excepting the president?

I did not ay anywhere that all people with gun are racist. I said that the sort of people who you praise are the sort whose prejudice 9along with Mr Bundy's attitudes to Black folk) probably also have a similar dislike of other minorities - Muslims, Gays, the transgendered. Please offer me some evidence that these brave little men of the militias with their gun obsession love girls like you? You despite liberal values - yet in the more liberal parts of america benefit from them. Outside of these areas girls like you would stand a good chance of being lynched... especially if you were also black.

Your aggression in your posts displays pretty strong xenophobic strand I'm afraid with your absurd remarks about britain - and Europe.

Oh and I see in your response to Trish you mention the feds pointing their guns at women and children. I have also seen a clip where one of the brave militiamen said they'd put the girls out front - as a "human shield" so that if the shooting starts the news cameras would show the feds gunning down women. Very Saddam that one...

First things first. The militia that went to defend the Bundy Ranch belong to and was organized by the Oath Keepers. You can read all about their beliefs and standings as patriotic defenders of the Republic here: http://oathkeepers.org/oath/about/

Their website has a cool section regarding their stances on discrimination, "We are Not advocating or promoting any act or acts of aggression against any organization or person for any reason including, but not limited to; race, religion, national origin, political affiliation, gender or sexual orientation." Suck it.

One dumb retired Sheriff made that comment about putting women and children in front of the militia. No one else condoned that. You like to take one individual's comments and try to make them apply to everyone there.

In regards to the Hitler comment. I wasn't comparing Hitler to specific politicians in power. I was comparing several policies, regulations and technological capabilities our government uses against its own people that Hitler (and Stalin I suppose too) would have a field day with. NSA wiretapping, internet spying, drone airstrike assassinations, FBI facial recognition technology, RFID tracking chips, surveillance cameras everywhere.

Damn, is the midwest U.S. that dangerous these days? I wonder, have YOU traveled alone, by car, across the entire United States? I sure have. Twice. I drove from New York to Los Angeles and then a year later, from Las Vegas to New York. I stopped at places such as Flagstaff, AZ; Albuquerque, NM; Oklahoma City, OK; Amarillo, TX; Joplin, MO; Roswell, NM; Lawrence, KS; and a variety of rest stops and truck stops along the way to refuel, full of "redneck murderous white supremacists". Oh wait. They weren't murderous white supremacists. Your train of thought about the American people, especially non-liberals, is quite dated. I have a better chance of being brutally raped and murdered walking through Chicago or Manhattan than I do in East Bumblefuck, USA.

I wonder if Kitti is auditioning for a job with Fox? or as a shockjock?

Do you enjoy Fox, Kitty - that big network owned by one of the world's most successful media barons who will align his media empire sides with whichever regime he needs to in order to sustain his revenue flow?

I don't watch any form of mainstream news except to find out the weather. And for that I use the Weather Channel. Fox, CNN, MSNBC, ABC, CBS and every other major network is the same lying, deceptive BS as all the others.

[kittyKaiti]

No you are. I said, “Cliven's not a hero. He's an excuse. He's an excuse for looney, white supremacist, anti-U.S. government, slim[e]balls to get out their guns, wave them around and ejaculate a few rounds of stupidity, ignorance and hatred. They're such magnificent specimens of masculinity, don't you think?”

And at no point did I say Cliven and his white supremacist friends Nazis.

Your absolute inability to comprehend English disturbs me.

"He's an excuse for looney, white supremacist, .... a few rounds of stupidity, ignorance and hatred."

White Supremacists are racist individuals, typically associated with Neo-Nazis, the KKK, Aryan Nations, Hammerskins and other white power movement groups, known for their hatred of non-whites. Stop embarrassing yourself.

[trish]

Your absolute inability to comprehend English disturbs me.

"He's an excuse for looney, white supremacist, .... a few rounds of stupidity, ignorance and hatred."

White Supremacists are racist individuals, typically associated with Neo-Nazis, the KKK, Aryan Nations, Hammerskins and other white power movement groups, known for their hatred of non-whites. Stop embarrassing yourself.

You said,

You're implying the protesters and militia are Nazis, Klansmen and psychopaths.

No. You did. I only said, “Cliven's not a hero. He's an excuse. He's an excuse for looney, white supremacist, anti-U.S. government, slim[e]balls to get out their guns, wave them around and ejaculate a few rounds of stupidity, ignorance and hatred. They're such magnificent specimens of masculinity, don't you think?”

If I’m required to read Cliven’s idiotic remarks literally, then please do me the curtesey of reading mine, literally and without assumption.

Yeah, we could argue about the literal dictionary definition of “white supremacist” (n. a person who believes that the white race is or should be supreme), “neo-nazi” vs “nazi”, what the subject of the third sentence in quotes is etc. But that would be all aside the point. It is telling that this non-point is the only thing you seem to find disturbing.

It will cost you on average $16 per head per month to rent grazing land from a private owner. The U.S. in Nevada is charging less than $2 per head per month, yet Bundy won’t pay it? Not disturbing?
Of course not. He doesn’t recognize the Federal government, just the good ol’ county sheriff.

How about the fact that up until twenty years ago Cliven’s cattle grazed legally for free and as of twenty years ago illegally for free and yet at the same time he complains about the welfare negro? Disturbing?
No, he has a negro friend who’s down with that.

How about the fact that Cliven claims to be a freedom-lover and yet he often finds himself wondering whether or not the negro was better off enslaved? Isn’t that downright contradictory?
Not really. Cliven is a deep and careful thinker and you got to read him carefully.

How about the fact that Cliven doesn’t seem to know that slaves in the South had no assurances of a family life? Not disturbing?
Enough with the lib tears. I’m drownin’ here. Anyway this isn’t about race its about guns.

How about the fact that there’s a young woman who claims she is a lover of freedom but doesn’t seem to find anything at all disturbing or puzzling about any of Cliven’s views? She finds them all just peachy keen? Disturbing?
Naw, not disturbing...shameful.