Is Tgirl a better word - and should that become the norm?

[iagodelgado]

The bathroom test is relevant in real life.

For years I managed or supervised large numbers of females and males at work and giving them a suitable working environment was important.

If Human Relations Dept informed me that one of my staff was transsexual, I'd be happy to support said person in using the correct bathroom.

If HRD informed me that one of my staff was a cross-dresser, I would not be supportive of them using what I see as the wrong bathroom.

It might be different in clubs where both types of people mix, but I am concerned with general life, not highly specialised situations. The bathroom test applies in other areas of life e.g. public areas frequented by people under 18. (Please note, that comment has nothing to do with paedophiles.)

That brings us to what constitutes 'transsexual'. Krissy goes for 'true belief', which I can't buy. Atheists, Jews, Moslems, Christians etc. can't all be right, despite their 'true belief'.

MsBehavin's check is better. It certainly can't just be individual assertion, because that reminds me of the tale of the mental asylum with two Jesus's at the same time. It requires some form of independent, external verification. What is reasonable in this respect is problematic.

This thread went through a stage of whether transsexual people would make progress faster (in gaining equality of rights) if they acted alone, separate from cross-dressers, separate from other groups under the transgender umbrella, or whether these groups should join forces.

Your opinion on this, please?

[GroobyKrissy]

Look Msbhaven...

I'm not going to include your last post as a quote this time and instead just address you directly. I have done nothing more than hold you accountable TO YOUR OWN STATED definition(s) of the word, "Transsexual", which was first THIS:
"Transsexual is a state of mind."

Then, when I pressed on that as being so completely and utterly vague as to include just about anyone, YOU changed it to THIS:
"Transsexualism is an incongruity between what the brain identifies itself as and the physical body that contains said brain."

Then, I pressed back on that and gave you ample time to reword or clarify that, which you chose not to do. Thus this stays as your latest self-stated definition of Transsexual.
You would think that every actual Transsexual on this board would have an issue with you defining Transsexualism (and by implication, Transsexuals) simply as an "incongruity" which is to say, a mistake or a twisting (this is a noun here) of something normal and/or once beautiful.

Currently, now, you say, in relation to the simple definitions that Felicia posted (italics mine):
"That is a perfectly well thought out rational and sensible dissertation on transsexualism, cross dressing, and gender identity disorder. And I don't have a problem with the theories contained there in."

And then you go on to completely contradict your second sentence by placing all sorts of modifiers on that definition in your next three paragraphs. You are all over the map... a so-called "expert", with years of "experience" who cannot even pick, relate, and stay with one definition.

Kelly asked me for my definition... I gave it. It is clear. I have no need to revise it, change it, or alter it. And, I'll defend it.

So far, all you've done is go along with the latest, greatest... whatever is convenient... whatever fits what you're saying right then and there. Basically you've now said, the "right" (not the term itself - this is an important distinction) to use the word "Transsexual" as a self-identification is based upon a series of physical and legal changes that must be tangibly concrete in order to be recognized.

Even at that, if you had cared to read my introductory thread, you would know that I then fall into (AGAIN) your own stated terms (I have been clinically diagnosed, and am in the process of making legal changes, and have notified my employer of an upcoming transitional status, and etc.). Still, you won't give me the decency and instead, basically say that I, and many others in similar circumstances, are an "insult" to the larger TS community.

Classy.

[GroobyKrissy]

Look Kelly...

You said this:

"I am shocked you write for a magazine or will be involved in anything to do with activism. If that's the case I'm scared..."

You know what scares me. Hearing this on the radio (this was an interview on a fairly well-known station between one of our very own TS Pornstars and the host... I'm paraphrasing since I don't remember the exact quote).

Host: So, you're "Transsexual"... Can you tell our listeners that that means?

TS Pornstar: *...silence...* Well, I have a dick.

Host: *laughter* Wait, wait, wait! Joe Blow (I don't remember his name but the host was referring to one of the producers) over here has a dick. Does that make him Transsexual? (another round of laughter).

TS Pornstar: Well, does he have tits? Because I have tits and a dick!

Host: *laughter* OK, well, that settles that.

Then the conversation went on. Now, you've got a TS Pornstar with a national platform to actually give a serious answer to a question and maybe help clear the issue up for some people. Instead, she came off looking uneducated, unprepared, and I would argue, did far more "damage" to any "cause" than some silly CD being arrested for stealing panties and splashed all over the news.

So, Kelly... be scared. But be scared of your own, who are ill-prepared and (mostly) cannot relate or argue the point of what Transsexual is and means. This is my point. Know the issue. Educate yourself on the issue. Know how to explain the issue. Those on this board that I've engaged in have failed to do so and I'm fairly certain, if it was them sitting in that chair being asked by that host, "Explain to us what Transsexual means.", would come off looking and sounding equally foolish.

Look, I've walked in academic circles my whole life. I'm smart, with a GPA that would make you say, "Wait, I thought 4.0 was the top you could get." and other stupid crap and titles that I won't even mention. I can tell you this. The academic world is ruthless and it will chew you up and spit you out if you come out swinging without the tools and logic to back up your arguments. I will challenge the academics and leave the award ceremonies, media outlets, and radio gigs (which I think are no less important) to those who shine there. I do not. My strengths lie in breaking down a discourse into pure logic and tackling issues on that basis. This is the world of academia and one that I am well accustomed to engaging in.

I have those tools and I have that logic. So, yes... I will put them to use to fight for a cause that I think needs addressing and I'll be equally fair and damning to the Transsexual community and the Transgender community for the bullshit that they both employ.

I've already sent letters out to several academic magazines, journals, and papers and have taken personal steps to create a foundation to fund this journey. I've increased by almost 300% my social media presence over the last year, and I plan on becoming more and more vocal throughout 2014 and getting more and more involved in any instance where I see and issue relating to either community that needs to be addressed, starting first at the local level here in Oregon and branching out from there.

I don't want the title activist and don't really care to be recognized for it. I would just as soon get the ball rolling and then hand it off to someone else and just fund it privately and quietly. But, until that happens, I'll do what I can while I have the means and resources (thanks to my male privilege) to do it.

So... guess who else is "scared"? Me.

I realize I'm going to take a FUCKING DUMP TRUCK of crap from both sides once I start releasing papers, articles, and videos. I'm willing to take it because I think the conversation is worth having... and "winnable" at this time in our lives here on Earth. This is a fight we can now win. I'm sure of it. But we all need help and we need to unify the community or else the numbers just aren't there to accomplish anything.

[GroobyKrissy]

Anyway... those two posts were my last in this thread.

Again, thank you to both Kelly and Msbhaven, and also Felicia for the input and conversation.

See y'all around!

[MrsKellyPierce]

You do not know what a transsexual is!

Not many transsexuals I know that is an actual one who transitioned later in life had the BELIEF they were female!

Many didn't even know what was going on!

They had a thoughts and feelings something was wrong or they were not right.

Some think they are just gay at first while others think they just like dressing as women

The belief isn't right off the bat for many transsexuals...

Some deny it to themselves or block it out

I knew from a young age I didn't even know I wasn't a female like my niece till my mom was giving us both a bath and she obviously had something different than me!

Just because a transsexual goes through a confusion period doesn't make them a gay make or a crossdresser! It just took them time to find themselves! Many are too scared to move down the road to transition and dressing up here and there is an outlet!

I really don't get you...if anything crossdressing/gay male was a phase till they found the right answers and truth for them!

You dear hold too tight onto your crossdresser past which I get, because some older transitioners even though they they are trans-women will hold on to their male side for comfort. I mean after you lived and loved a certain way for years it takes some unlearning and piecing the woman you are into the puzzle as well! It's not always cut and dry!

This is why you sound so out of touch when it comes to being a transsexual to me.

Just like you were trying to pick a difference in what Msbhaven and I said.

She stated it's what is going on upstairs, but she doesn't feel someone is a transsexual unless they live the life of one 24/7 etc.

Where as I working with early transitioners and speaking with "men" at groups and conventions that were able to steal a few hours away to talk about their imprisonment they felt either due to having a family, coming from a family with money who would be outraged, or just not ready to transition were crying in tears how they wished they could just be normal! That these "thoughts" would go away! Their so called "belief" you talk about was a belief in the life they built as a MAN..but their thoughts and workings upstairs kept telling them "You are not a man!", "You are living a lie!", and other mental torture they complained about! This is why I say what I do and feel how I feel on you are never a crossdresser nor are these "men" I came across are men! They are deep down women! Tortured women!

[MrsKellyPierce]

Is that really your reasoning most ts pornstars aren't trying to be advocates they are just trying to make themselves more famous they don't care how they phrase things as long as it brings attention to their website etc

[MrsKellyPierce]

You can't explain what a transsexual is sweety you just speak supposed "intellectual thoughts"

That's a lot diff than actually knowing what DYSPHORIA actually feels like!

[MrsKellyPierce]

Oh so your plan and world domination Krissy is to tell everyone we are crossdressers

WONDERFUL

[MrsKellyPierce]

Someone's different way of expressing their gender is insulting, belittling, and a mockery to yours. Thank goodness no one would ever consider that even remotely smug, self righteousness, or superior. LOL

And by all means, let's include the bathroom freak out standard in the discussion. Because a fearful ignorant restroom reaction is always the best driver for social policy and because no women or "fully recognized transsexuals" ever misbehave in bathrooms and there are no gender neutral laws against lewd or indecent behavior in them.

People should distinguish themselves by their own character and behavior not by trying to define or more accurately demean others. Put more simply, do (and define) unto others as you would have them do (and define) unto you.

Peace

FK

Felicia I never said surgery or hormones make you a transsexual

I STATED several times it doesn't having known drag queens and crossdressers with breast and face surgeries who look better than I do buy still identify as either straight/gay men!

I have repeated myself it's the upstairs that determines who is and isn't a transsexual!

And that two years joke is offensive! I am a woman cause of what is going on upstairs!

Many transsexuals don't even opt for any kind of surgery and feel hormones is enough EVERYONES dysphoria is different.

This is why we have psychologist to make sure we are on the right path, but of course there are ones who bypass all this ordering hormones online and going to Thailand and other countries who don't need written letters to get srs. Some find out they didn't have gender dysphoria at all but body dysphoria and they regret the decision and sometimes kill themselves. Sometimes too unversed psychologist diagnose girls wrong too! They slip through the cracks, but the standards and regulations are there for a reason. Personally I feel some transsexuals I met were misdiagnosed or had body dysphoria.

I think you can grasp your true self at any age, any height, and any body type. I also feel it's necessary for any transsexual to transition to put themselves at peace! It's funny how some hormones, name change, and surgeries can fix how we feel.

[GroobyKrissy]

Edited by me.

That brings us to what constitutes 'transsexual'. Krissy goes for 'true belief', which I can't buy. Atheists, Jews, Moslems, Christians etc. can't all be right, despite their 'true belief'.

Well, I guess I have to post once more.

iagodelgado:
Look, when you try to quote someone, you need to either disclose that you are only using a partial quote OR quote the entirety of what they said.

That allows the reader to know that you've made a change in the context or that it is a partial quote. That is just common courtesy when you're debating someone in writing. So do me the common courtesy, and if you say, "...Krissy goes for..." and then you quote TWO WORDS of a longer definition completely out of context... make it known that you are doing so.

I never said that Transsexual is just a "true belief"... my definition states a WHOLE lot more than that and does not argue the point of "RIGHT or WRONG" AT ALL, which you're trying to inject into it with your religious listings. It is a completely irrelevant point.

As to your point about unification. Start a new thread. Lay out your case and I'll engage you there. This thread is toast as it is now being said emphatically that my whole goal is to turn the entire world into crossdressing fetishists.