left wing whiners with apparent passive aggressive tendencies, who can't make a salie

[glenntinnyc]

This thread stems from the Pete Seeger memorial

firstly I would like to know why so many on the left make fun of the GOP , Tea Party and Nascar yet can't ever seem to do anything but come across as self important.

Also do do you think it's hostile and passive aggressive to rebut with a snarky comment first in a political discussion then apologize further down the line in attempt to come across as genuine?


These questions are based on comments made by Bronco and Trish in the Pete Seeger thread.

[broncofan]

I like parody.

As to your question, yes it is passive aggressive. That was part of the whole joke though. I make the slightest little snarky comment and then call a truce. But you responded to this with so much indignation. If you want to have the discussion here we can do that.

[broncofan]

firstly I would like to know why so many on the left make fun of the GOP , Tea Party and Nascar yet can't ever seem to do anything but come across as self important.

I am not a political operative. If I were I would not openly make fun of Nascar or the Tea Party. Instead I engage in policy discussion where suited and at other times make jokes about the great cultural divide. I don't think the secret to the appeal of the GOP lies in the so-called elitism of the Democratic party. It is because the GOP has a regressive social agenda, including opposition to gay marriage, hate crime legislation including gay bashing, and a decades-long record of fighting the implementation of civil rights legislation.

But you can blame their success in the south on elitism if you'd like.

[glenntinnyc]

[QUOTE=broncofan;1450874]I like parody.

As to your question, yes it is passive aggressive. That was part of the whole joke though. I make the slightest little snarky comment and then call a truce. But you responded to this with so much indignation. If you want to have the discussion here we can do that.[/QUO

I know what it is, you can call it whatever you want, in the real world if you make a snarky comment or a backhanded compliment you get called out on it. Its not indignation at all, it called what goes around comes around.

[Stavros]

We used to have a regular poster here from California called Hippifried, I don't know what happened to him as he hasn't posted for some time. He was also dismissive of the use of labels like 'left' and 'right' and where I think he touched on something important it is because, particularly since the end of the Cold War, the simple division of political ideologies into 'left' or 'right', sometimes meaning 'collectivist' or 'individual' has ceased to be so sharp, and even more so because in the US the Clinton administration and in the UK the Blair government implemented policies that would not have been off the agenda of their rivals. Indeed, at one time Mrs Thatcher declared that Tony Blair was her true heir. To make Labour an electable party, it had to get rid of its association with the 'Working class', that large bloc of mostly industrial workers from the mines, the mills and the workshops many of whose jobs disappeared in the 1980s. In a similar fashion the Obama administration has been banging on about the 'Middle Class' and in the process left behind those who have been left behind. So I think there is a lack of clarity amongst voters about what their parties represent.

Another view, provided by George Lakoff argues the 'progressive' aspect of American politics has actually failed to take on the Republican party because of its inherent inability to say what it means. Presidential elections have favoured Obama, in my view because he was so different from George Bush, but I don't know how successful the Democrats have been as a party nationwide, and Lakoff argues the Republicans win arguments because of the simplicity of their message -love of country, freedom, the right to keep what you earn, where the Democrats get tied up in knots by contrasting their opponents policies with their own instead of offering voters 'the big picture' on what it means to use the state as a vehicle of social and economic change. Crucially, Lakoff argues that there is no political centre, and that most concessions in politics in recent years have been made by the 'Progressives' to the 'Republicans'. He also uses Erving Goffman's concept of Frames as an intellectual way of seeing the portals through which ideas are expressed, and he finds the 'left' are awful at expressing themselves.

It is quite a long article, but there is a review of Lakoff's ideas here:
http://www.theguardian.com/books/201...koff-interview

[broncofan]

I know what it is, you can call it whatever you want, in the real world if you make a snarky comment or a backhanded compliment you get called out on it. Its not indignation at all, it called what goes around comes around.

Alright. You'll get my agreement on that. But I still feel how I feel about the original comments in the thread (the fuckwittery comments and the you can move there comments). They were a little more hostile than you think they were. I was passive-aggressive or jocular in response...that was the wrong play.

[glenntinnyc]

I am not a political operative. If I were I would not openly make fun of Nascar or the Tea Party. Instead I engage in policy discussion where suited and at other times make jokes about the great cultural divide. I don't think the secret to the appeal of the GOP lies in the so-called elitism of the Democratic party. It is because the GOP has a regressive social agenda, including opposition to gay marriage, hate crime legislation including gay bashing, and a decades-long record of fighting the implementation of civil rights legislation.

But you can blame their success in the south on elitism if you'd like.

You're so misguided its almost sad. Progressive ideas are shared by a majority in this country , including gay marriage, civil rights, gun control. hate crime etc, the reason they have so much difficulty implementing those ideas is beacuse they ostracize the very people they are hoping to gain the support of with. Politics is a popularity contest, and the left are unlikable, just ask Joe the plumber . The majority of Americans when asked about the individual aspects of healthcare reform were all for them, yet the left still managed to fuck it up by letting right call it social healthcare and not having the stones to respond, but instead they gave snarky elitist answers . The same thing is happening in the gun control debate right now. You have a well organized minority holding back legislation because the left are to busy bitching instead of organizing. They are unlikable and elitist and that is why they lose the support of the people even though their ideas and views are actually in the majority.

[Stavros]

You're so misguided its almost sad. Progressive ideas are shared by a majority in this country , including gay marriage, civil rights, gun control. hate crime etc, the reason they have so much difficulty implementing those ideas is beacuse they ostracize the very people they are hoping to gain the support of with. Politics is a popularity contest, and the left are unlikable, just ask Joe the plumber . The majority of Americans when asked about the individual aspects of healthcare reform were all for them, yet the left still managed to fuck it up by letting right call it social healthcare and not having the stones to respond, but instead they gave snarky elitist answers . The same thing is happening in the gun control debate right now. You have a well organized minority holding back legislation because the left are to busy bitching instead of organizing. They are unlikable and elitist and that is why they lose the support of the people even though their ideas and views are actually in the majority.

Very similar to what Lakoff is arguing. I recommend the article in the link I posted when you have time.

[broncofan]

It depends on how you do the polling. If you ask people straight up what they think about the civil rights act, very few will like Phil Robertson say they think it is bad for African-Americans. On the other hand, the Republican party has been very successful in playing to previously unexpressed prejudices on issues of immigration, health care, welfare, and their Southern Strategy was emblematic of this. And whatever the exact numbers are, a large proportion of Republicans vehemently oppose gay marriage and vehemently oppose any gun control measures.

It never comes across as likeable to encourage moderation in others. It's not likeable to gun owners to hear that the unchecked distribution of certain types of guns cause violence. They don't want to hear that some people in the higher income brackets will have to pay more taxes if they want to balance the budget; that they can't simply get there by eliminating programs. All of the snark could leave the Democratic party and Joe the Plumber would not become a progressive.

We had a thread about Dubai the other day. How many people in that thread would have liked it if in juxtaposing the discrimination of Dubai against homosexuals we had discussed the failure of our government to provide habeas-like procedures to Muslims detained post-9/11? There are a lot of things people don't want to hear.

[Prospero]

I like Glenn's signature admitting is postings are works of fiction. They read that way. Little war stories.