The Concept Of Being "God Fearing"

[buttslinger]

How come we can make jokes about God, but we can't make jokes about gays or blacks?

[timmartin]

How come we can make jokes about God, but we can't make jokes about gays or blacks?

Gays and blacks are real and they have feelings.

[martin48]

How come we can make jokes about God, but we can't make jokes about gays or blacks?

Or, it could be that if you do, God smites you down.

[buttslinger]

Uh oh, I almost got serious.

[Plaything]

Interesting discussion.

Can't help but chuckle at what the HA programme algorithm has determined to constitute 'similar threads'

And, dearly beloved, Let us not forget the greatest lesson of them all.

Blessed are the cheesemakers.

[Laphroaig]

Interesting discussion.

Can't help but chuckle at what the HA programme algorithm has determined to constitute 'similar threads'

And, dearly beloved, Let us not forget the greatest lesson of them all.

Blessed are the cheesemakers.

If we're going down that route then surely this is the greatest lesson of all...

[Plaything]

Religion?

Piece of piss.

And the lord sayeth (no capital T: not suggesting a definitive article, insert your own deity)

'Don't be a twat'

That pretty much wraps it up.

[martin48]

God's "To Do List"

[trish]

Apologies in advance. Just felt like rambling a bit. It’s a nice day for a walk.

Is it possible to decide what one believes and disbelieves? What is belief? Our daily life is underpinned by a multitude of unconscious assumptions and commitments to action. Before you jump out of bed in the morning, I’m betting you do not generally ponder the solidity of floor, review the mechanics of stress and strain, access the evidence and decide to believe the flooring will indeed support you––rather than grow eyes, open its gullet and gobble you up. Perhaps it’s not fair to call an unconscious assumption a belief. But now that it’s been brought to mind, certainly you consciously believe the ground upon which you now stand, or your chair stands will continue to support you into the near future. It’s a belief probably based on recent and current experience. But what is that belief? Some might say it’s merely a commitment to action (a gamble that the ground currently beneath you will continue to support you).

What does it mean to believe the Earth is between four and five billion years old? Is there a correspondence between reality as we observe it and what is believed? Perhaps the correspondence is that the Earth has has already made over four billion trips around the Sun but not five billion? But how can anyone observe that? What commitment does such a belief entail? To many, it entails no real commitments. You just say you believe it and go on with your life. If later we discover the Earth is at least six billion years old, you can shrug your shoulders and say, “Imagine that.” But if you’re a geologist, or an astronomer, or a paleontologist etc., the belief that the Earth is between four and five billion years old entails quite a number of commitments and the consequences of being wrong would involve quite a number of reassessments, adjustments and new commitments. Everything would have to be rethought.

The point is that belief involves commitment. The less committed you are, the easier it is to change your mind. World views tend to have a lot a inertia and are accordingly more difficult to change. We have predispositions for against various propositions, depending on who we are. Often we do not decide what to believe. We believe first and investigate second. This is not so bad, if we are in the habit of investigating with honesty and integrity.

So what does it mean to believe the universe was created by a god? It depends on the believer. The Judeo-Christian-Islamic tradition maintains that belief entails commitment to the commandments of the creator god as detailed by his recorded word in the various holy texts. But belief that the holy texts record the words of the creator god as revealed to the prophets presumes the existence of such a god. Such commitment depends ultimately (and circularly) upon one’s trust in the text, and penultimately upon one’s trust in the prophets. This was the view against which protestants rebelled during the reformation. Protestants (and Mormons) maintain the each person has direct access to the creator-god and speaks with him on a daily basis through via a religious/moral conscious and prayer. Personally, I’m inclined to describe anyone who claims to have a personal relationship with god as having a serious lack of (and misunderstanding of)intellectual honesty__but self-deceit is a serious charge that’s difficult prove.

Of course belief in a creator god needn’t involve such a clutter of moral and metaphysical commitments. There are some, for example who simply believe that the present values of the fundamental constants indicate that they’ve been fine-tuned; i.e. deliberately chosen by conscious agent to favor the evolution of life in the universe. What does it mean to believe this? Does the hypothesis have any testable consequences? To what does it commit us? Functionally, to no more than the observable fact that “life exists” already commits us. It remains an empty, though to some, a comforting perspective on a cosmic contingency.

My guess is that we are sometimes incapable of deciding what we believe; like the parents who insist their child is not a murderer in spite of the evidence to the contrary__ and who knows, they may be right. We believe what we believe. Sometimes logic will take us by the throat and force us to see the world as it is, and sometimes the throttling just cuts off the flow of oxygen to our brains. The trick is to know when you’re hallucinating and when you’re not. Honest examination won't always help, but it's our only ally.

[Plaything]

Cormac McCarthy sees things.

Rather brilliantly.

You see Cormac.

I imagine that when walking in the country you also see the wind play across a field of wheat, where others stride head down and calculate the calorific value of their journey.

I see Cormac.

I see the breeze.

Diggin it.