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  1. #1
    Emperor Crazypants Platinum Poster Dino Velvet's Avatar
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    Default The Concept Of Being "God Fearing"

    This is one of the reasons to me organized religion is such BS having to do more with man controlling man instead of honoring God. I myself was born a Christian and think Jesus is a neat fella that could be God. Who knows? I was born in America from parents that were Christian so I hope that brings me good luck. Wonder what the odds in Vegas are.

    Anyway, I have people in my family that are so proud to be "God Fearing". Proud of being proud of it. But, what is love and why fear someone that loves you like God? Make it sound like God is wearing a wifebeater lying in wait for us at the Pearly Gates to push us down the staircase of condemnation. That's no loving God. That sounds more like the Satan character you made up just in case we don't fear God enough. Kiss the bunny between the ears because I have nothing but scorn for you.



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  2. #2
    5 Star Poster dderek123's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Concept Of Being "God Fearing"

    Have you ever seen Religulous with Bill Maher? It's a pretty funny documentary about how silly organized religion is.



  3. #3
    Emperor Crazypants Platinum Poster Dino Velvet's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Concept Of Being "God Fearing"

    I haven't. I've seen some clips that were funny. From what I saw he looks fairly even handed in his bashing. Fine by me. I'll check it out if it comes on the DirecTV.




  4. #4
    Platinum Poster martin48's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Concept Of Being "God Fearing"

    All very confusing - why fear a deity that is "loving" and "forgiving"? "God fearing" in its original meaning "respecting God". Words change meaning, like "Exception that proves a rule" - where "prove" originally meant "to test".



    'When I use a word,’ Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, ‘it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.’

    ’The question is,’ said Alice, ‘whether you can make words mean so many different things.’

    ’The question is,’ said Humpty Dumpty, ‘which is to be master — that’s all.'


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  5. #5
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    Default Re: The Concept Of Being "God Fearing"

    There is an argument that the first people to be described as 'God fearing' were those people who did not convert to Judaism but believed in the same One God as Moses and those who accepted Mosaic law as fundamental to the practice of being a Jew. This fringe group is of some importance because they did not convert to Judaism being opposed to circumcision, strict observance of the Sabbath, and the dietary laws that were developed by 'formal Jews'. Indeed I am not sure why they are called Jews as there is evidence that by origin they were Greek, or part of the Greek civilisation as it spread across the Eastern Mediterranean, in much the same way that the word 'Amen' is derived from the name of an Egyptian god Amoun, where one notes the influence of Ancient Egypt on the same region. The relevance to Christianity is that this marginal group of 'God fearing' people became some of the first of Paul's converts precisely because Christianity did not impose the same regulations on its believers and therefore made it easier to become part of a religious community without having to be circumcised, and so on. However, it seems to me that although Judaism expects its believers to both fear and love God, there is a greater emphasis on love in Christianity, and this may have been why the 'God fearing' people as a distinct community seem to disappear from the historical record.

    However, as religions have developed they have become rule-based institutions which monitor human behaviour and by doing so offer moral judgement where such judgement may appear to believers to have permanent, that is, eternal consequences. For such moral judgements to have any effect, the institute requires believers to accept what the religious laws say without question. If someone believes that there is a God, that this God has absolute power and absolute and permanent awareness of who you are and what you do, then this power is awesome indeed. And by claiming to be representatives of this terrifying power, priests in turn acquire enormous prestige in society.
    From an anthropological perspective, one can see that we are dealing with the means whereby a 'state of nature' in which there are no laws or constraints on human behavior, can be replaced by a 'state of government' which offers people a social framework in which a consensus on behaviour maintains social peace in which to produce the goods and services that make living tolerable in good times and bad times, where agriculture is the primary mode of subsistence. The role that religion plays in these societies is religious where religion acts as the principal means through which people understand why they are alive, the purpose they have in living, and the values attached to that. It was in one form science, art and politics offering physical, intellectual and spiritual comfort to all.

    To fear God in this context, was a warning not to break the rules; and because on earth those rules were imposed by other men with a special status -priests- the institutional power of the Church (broadly defined to accommodate the three monotheist religions) was seen as a benefit to human society, and to be excommunicated from society was therefore a disaster for an individual who chose to be different. Of the three religions, Christianity is assumed to be more forgiving and flexible, where Judaism in its formal presentation and Islam are both unforgiving and brutal. The excommunication of the philosopher Spinoza is worth reading about as an example of the harsh conditions imposed by the Jews of Amsterdam at that time, it forced Spinoza out of the city for a while, and while he returned the only means of living he had was from the generosity of friends, some private teaching, and the grinding of lenses whose dust might have contributed to his death. The writ against him is one example of the means whereby a religious institution which claims the authority of God can exercise its punishment. I feel these days that unless one is a believer, these judgements are hysterical and worthless, but to believers they must cause great anxiety, and thereby induce obedience to the community as part of the wider obedience to God. Or else.

    The writ against Spinoza (Amsterdam 1656):
    The Lords of the ma'amad, having long known of the evil opinions and acts of Baruch de Espinoza, have endeavord by various means and promises, to turn him from his evil ways. But having failed to make him mend his wicked ways, and, on the contrary, daily receiving more and more serious information about the abominable heresies which he practiced and taught and about his monstrous deeds, and having for this numerous trustworthy witnesses who have deposed and born witness to this effect in the presence of the said Espinoza, they became convinced of the truth of the matter; and after all of this has been investigated in the presence of the honorable chachamin, they have decided, with their consent, that the said Espinoza should be excommunicated and expelled from the people of Israel. By the decree of the angels, and by the command of the holy men, we excommunicate, expel, curse and damn Baruch de Espinoza, with the consent of God, Blessed be He, and with the consent of all the Holy Congregation, in front of these holy Scrolls with the six-hundred-and-thirteen precepts which are written therein, with the excommunication with which Joshua banned Jericho, with the curse with which Elisha cursed the boys, and with all the curses which are written in the Book of the Law. Cursed be he by day and cursed be he by night; cursed be he when he lies down, and cursed be he when he rises up; cursed be he when he goes out, and cursed be he when he comes in. The Lord will not spare him; the anger and wrath of the Lord will rage against this man, and bring upon him all the curses which are written in this book, and the Lord will blot out his name from under heaven, and the Lord will separate him to his injury from all the tribes of Israel with all the curses of the covenant, which are written in the Book of the Law. But you who cleave unto the Lord God are all alive this day. We order that no one should communicate with him orally or in writing, or show him any favor, or stay with him under the same roof, or within four ells of him, or read anything composed or written by him.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spinoza...ious_community


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  6. #6
    Hung Angel Platinum Poster trish's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Concept Of Being "God Fearing"

    By the decree of the angels, and by the command of the holy men, we excommunicate, expel, curse and damn Baruch de Espinoza, with the consent of God...

    Thou shall not bear false witness against thy neighbor...but if you want to lie about what you know to be decreed by angels or what consents God gave you, just go ahead and lie, God will look the other way.


    I've always found the dishonesty of the fervently faithful absolutely stunning. Is it a lack of intellectual integrity, or just outright lying? Did those who condemned Spinoza actually believe they knew what angels decreed and that they had God's consent on this particular excommunication, or were they wolves in sheep's clothing merely preserving the powers of their office by shunning those who proposed opinions that undermined their power?


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    "...I no longer believe that people's secrets are defined and communicable, or their feelings full-blown and easy to recognize."_Alice Munro, Chaddeleys and Flemings.

    "...the order in creation which you see is that which you have put there, like a string in a maze, so that you shall not lose your way". _Judge Holden, Cormac McCarthy's, BLOOD MERIDIAN.

  7. #7
    Verified account Silver Poster Ben in LA's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Concept Of Being "God Fearing"

    Thou shalt not kill...except for that one time mass murder was committed with a flood.


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    Also, fuck donald trump.

  8. #8
    Emperor Crazypants Platinum Poster Dino Velvet's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Concept Of Being "God Fearing"

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben in LA View Post
    Thou shalt not kill...except for that one time mass murder was committed with a flood.
    My aunt from Texas was over and I was talking to her. My kin over there take The Bible pretty literally. I asked her, "How did Noah live over 900 years?" She paused then gave a long "Weeeeeeeeeellllllllllllllllllllllllll...", which gives her time to think of a lie if she can stretch that one word out long enough. Then she finished by saying, "People back then just lived lo'onger." Trying not to laugh I shrug it off by saying, "I guess they had better drugs back then." I will admit her faith is unflappable. Her logic is like Swiss Cheese though.


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  9. #9
    Emperor Crazypants Platinum Poster Dino Velvet's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Concept Of Being "God Fearing"

    Quote Originally Posted by Stavros View Post
    There is an argument that the first people to be described as 'God fearing' were those people who did not convert to Judaism but believed in the same One God as Moses and those who accepted Mosaic law as fundamental to the practice of being a Jew. This fringe group is of some importance because they did not convert to Judaism being opposed to circumcision, strict observance of the Sabbath, and the dietary laws that were developed by 'formal Jews'. Indeed I am not sure why they are called Jews as there is evidence that by origin they were Greek, or part of the Greek civilisation as it spread across the Eastern Mediterranean, in much the same way that the word 'Amen' is derived from the name of an Egyptian god Amoun, where one notes the influence of Ancient Egypt on the same region. The relevance to Christianity is that this marginal group of 'God fearing' people became some of the first of Paul's converts precisely because Christianity did not impose the same regulations on its believers and therefore made it easier to become part of a religious community without having to be circumcised, and so on. However, it seems to me that although Judaism expects its believers to both fear and love God, there is a greater emphasis on love in Christianity, and this may have been why the 'God fearing' people as a distinct community seem to disappear from the historical record.

    However, as religions have developed they have become rule-based institutions which monitor human behaviour and by doing so offer moral judgement where such judgement may appear to believers to have permanent, that is, eternal consequences. For such moral judgements to have any effect, the institute requires believers to accept what the religious laws say without question. If someone believes that there is a God, that this God has absolute power and absolute and permanent awareness of who you are and what you do, then this power is awesome indeed. And by claiming to be representatives of this terrifying power, priests in turn acquire enormous prestige in society.
    From an anthropological perspective, one can see that we are dealing with the means whereby a 'state of nature' in which there are no laws or constraints on human behavior, can be replaced by a 'state of government' which offers people a social framework in which a consensus on behaviour maintains social peace in which to produce the goods and services that make living tolerable in good times and bad times, where agriculture is the primary mode of subsistence. The role that religion plays in these societies is religious where religion acts as the principal means through which people understand why they are alive, the purpose they have in living, and the values attached to that. It was in one form science, art and politics offering physical, intellectual and spiritual comfort to all.

    To fear God in this context, was a warning not to break the rules; and because on earth those rules were imposed by other men with a special status -priests- the institutional power of the Church (broadly defined to accommodate the three monotheist religions) was seen as a benefit to human society, and to be excommunicated from society was therefore a disaster for an individual who chose to be different. Of the three religions, Christianity is assumed to be more forgiving and flexible, where Judaism in its formal presentation and Islam are both unforgiving and brutal. The excommunication of the philosopher Spinoza is worth reading about as an example of the harsh conditions imposed by the Jews of Amsterdam at that time, it forced Spinoza out of the city for a while, and while he returned the only means of living he had was from the generosity of friends, some private teaching, and the grinding of lenses whose dust might have contributed to his death. The writ against him is one example of the means whereby a religious institution which claims the authority of God can exercise its punishment. I feel these days that unless one is a believer, these judgements are hysterical and worthless, but to believers they must cause great anxiety, and thereby induce obedience to the community as part of the wider obedience to God. Or else.

    The writ against Spinoza (Amsterdam 1656):
    The Lords of the ma'amad, having long known of the evil opinions and acts of Baruch de Espinoza, have endeavord by various means and promises, to turn him from his evil ways. But having failed to make him mend his wicked ways, and, on the contrary, daily receiving more and more serious information about the abominable heresies which he practiced and taught and about his monstrous deeds, and having for this numerous trustworthy witnesses who have deposed and born witness to this effect in the presence of the said Espinoza, they became convinced of the truth of the matter; and after all of this has been investigated in the presence of the honorable chachamin, they have decided, with their consent, that the said Espinoza should be excommunicated and expelled from the people of Israel. By the decree of the angels, and by the command of the holy men, we excommunicate, expel, curse and damn Baruch de Espinoza, with the consent of God, Blessed be He, and with the consent of all the Holy Congregation, in front of these holy Scrolls with the six-hundred-and-thirteen precepts which are written therein, with the excommunication with which Joshua banned Jericho, with the curse with which Elisha cursed the boys, and with all the curses which are written in the Book of the Law. Cursed be he by day and cursed be he by night; cursed be he when he lies down, and cursed be he when he rises up; cursed be he when he goes out, and cursed be he when he comes in. The Lord will not spare him; the anger and wrath of the Lord will rage against this man, and bring upon him all the curses which are written in this book, and the Lord will blot out his name from under heaven, and the Lord will separate him to his injury from all the tribes of Israel with all the curses of the covenant, which are written in the Book of the Law. But you who cleave unto the Lord God are all alive this day. We order that no one should communicate with him orally or in writing, or show him any favor, or stay with him under the same roof, or within four ells of him, or read anything composed or written by him.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spinoza...ious_community
    Thanks buddy. Always appreciated.




  10. #10
    Hung Angel Platinum Poster trish's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Concept Of Being "God Fearing"

    Methus'lah lived nine hundred years,
    Methus'lah lived nine hundred years,
    But who calls dat livin'
    When no gal will give in
    To no man what's nine hundred years ?



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    "...I no longer believe that people's secrets are defined and communicable, or their feelings full-blown and easy to recognize."_Alice Munro, Chaddeleys and Flemings.

    "...the order in creation which you see is that which you have put there, like a string in a maze, so that you shall not lose your way". _Judge Holden, Cormac McCarthy's, BLOOD MERIDIAN.

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