Ariel Sharon, the 'Butcher of Beirut', dies

[tiramisu]

The most blood lover dies finally

[Ben]

Noam Chomsky on Legacy of Ariel Sharon: Not Speaking Ill of the Dead:

Chomsky at the 2:40 mark:

[greyman]

He was a homocidal racist psychopath. The world is a slightly better place without him.

[DirtyDon]

A patriot and war hero. Rest in peace.

[broncofan]

A patriot and war hero. Rest in peace.

That's pretty far off the mark. But I imagine you did Greyman a favor since he only likes addressing ready-made strawman arguments. If English is your first language, then you have an advantage over the last man he was willing to argue with.

Personally I think Ariel Sharon had an awful record. Of course, he had a massive stroke in 2005 and has had a flat eeg since then, so I don't see it as that momentous that he went from no brain activity to no brain or heart activity.

[notdrunk]

That's pretty far off the mark. But I imagine you did Greyman a favor since he only likes addressing ready-made strawman arguments. If English is your first language, then you have an advantage over the last man he was willing to argue with.

Personally I think Ariel Sharon had an awful record. Of course, he had a massive stroke in 2005 and has had a flat eeg since then, so I don't see it as that momentous that he went from no brain activity to no brain or heart activity.

Actually, it isn't off the mark to some people. Ariel Sharon has a lengthy military record spanning decades.

Maybe he has a difference of opinion?

[broncofan]

Actually, it isn't off the mark to some people. Ariel Sharon has a lengthy military record spanning decades.

Maybe he has a difference of opinion?

Obviously he does. I suppose Sharon is a patriot but only if one defines patriot as trying to advance a narrow set of national interests no matter the effect on either non-citizens or the long-term welfare of his own citizens. This would mean many rogues throughout history are technically patriots.

I am also talking about his complicity in and active encouragement of war crimes (this is undisputed), as well as his failure to make any progress in achieving peace with the Palestinians (the withdrawal from Gaza notwithstanding).

One of the reasons I thought the first couple of posts were unnecessary is because I assumed Sharon's legacy was fairly obvious and he's been brain-dead for almost a decade. To me the posts had all the relevance of people dancing in the streets after Hussein was executed (not much). By all means argue about his legacy. I didn't know there were two sides to the argument.

Why don't you guys talk about the findings of the Kahan Commission's investigation at Sabra and Shatila?

[notdrunk]

Obviously he does. I suppose Sharon is a patriot but only if one defines patriot as trying to advance a narrow set of national interests no matter the effect on either non-citizens or the long-term welfare of his own citizens. This would mean many rogues throughout history are technically patriots.

I am also talking about his complicity in and active encouragement of war crimes (this is undisputed), as well as his failure to make any progress in achieving peace with the Palestinians (the withdrawal from Gaza notwithstanding).

One of the reasons I thought the first couple of posts were unnecessary is because I assumed Sharon's legacy was fairly obvious and he's been brain-dead for almost a decade. To me the posts had all the relevance of people dancing in the streets after Hussein was executed (not much). By all means argue about his legacy. I didn't know there were two sides to the argument.

Why don't you guys talk about the findings of the Kahan Commission's investigation at Sabra and Shatila?

Uh? I wasn't defending Sharon's legacy but explaining that DirtyDon didn't say anything wrong.

[broncofan]

Uh? I wasn't defending Sharon's legacy but explaining that DirtyDon didn't say anything wrong.

It was an error by omission. That's a complete whitewash if all someone can say about a man who facilitated an atrocity in Lebanon is that he's a war hero and a patriot. He was also a father, and 5'7, and liked vodka...what does that have to do with the price of tea?

And I have no answer for your first question there.

[Dino Velvet]

How would you guys compare Ariel Sharon with Benjamin Netanyahu?

Who is/was better for Israel?

Who is/was more volatile to the region?

Who is/was more likely to involve America in their entanglements?

Who is/was more likely to be considered a man of peace?

Which man had/has more respect for International Law?

Sorry for the amount of questions. I'd like some opinions from you. Especially the ones with dirt in the tread of their boots from a place that I have never been to.