Is Israel an evolving facist state?

[Benedict1991]

Just as people can't tell the difference between the (mostly violent) political ideologies of so-called Islamic 'purists' and Islam as a religion, so it seems you can't tell the difference between Judaism and the politics of Israel -if as you say it is the religion then German Jews would also have been fascist in the 1930s, which is manifest absurdity. Not all nationalists are fascists. Most Israeli Prime Ministers, if all not all of them have been atheists anyway -what is religious about that? If you work through the historical arguments Israelis have with themselves about how their state was formed, and how it has performed since 1948 you will maybe understand how it is politics rather than religion that has shaped the contemporary state.

No, they wouldn't. Because the fascism that ruled then was European ethnic nationalism, and to the Germans, Spanish, Italians, etc. those Jews were not ethnic Germans/Spanish/Italian etc. not even European.

[Prospero]

Israel is a democracy. The only one of any functioning note in the Middle east. It's present dominant ideology may well be distasteful. But it is NOT a fascist state. Look up fascism Benedict. It's a word far too easily thrown around. Zionism and Fascism are not synonyms.

[Benedict1991]

Israel is a democracy. The only one of any functioning note in the Middle east. It's present dominant ideology may well be distasteful. But it is NOT a fascist state. Look up fascism Benedict. It's a word far too easily thrown around. Zionism and Fascism are not synonyms.

You left out EVOLVING fascist state. You cannot set up an argument I did not make in order to save Israel's bacon.

The ethno-religious grounds are already set in Judaism to allow for horrors against those outside the tribe, the demographics are pushing it past South African Apartheid state (which Israel had cozy relations with for decades) and towards fascist state.

Neftali Bennet and Israel home party have fascist leanings, as much as any European party labeled neo-fascist.

[broncofan]

Benedict,
there is not much to argue with since you only make conclusory claims. There have been people on this site who have said things about Muslims that are a thousand times worse than what you are saying about Judaism and Jewish people. I did try to argue with them as did many decent people, but I suppose I can't be too bent out of shape since you only have 22 posts, and this is afterall the internet. I am Jewish, and as Stavros has said a lot of people in Israel are not observant or particularly religious.

I frequently hear people who say that an attack on Israel is not an attack on Jewish people. However, with you this is a moot point since the basis of your criticism of Israel is its Jewish character.

I will note that even the phrase evolving fascist state is not semantically correct, since what you are trying to say is that it is evolving into a fascist state and what the phrase actually says is that they are already fascist and continuing to morph (into what I don't know).

[broncofan]

Neftali Bennet and Israel home party have fascist leanings, as much as any European party labeled neo-fascist.

But would it be acceptable to call Hungary a fascist state because of the presence of Jobbik as a minority party in their political system?

The reason the phrase evolving fascist state is being used is so that you can divorce yourself entirely from the definition of fascism. They have not reached that point but you say they are on their way so you do not have to make any argument that is empirically correct. Then you can make a few vague allusions to Judaism, supremacism, and apartheid.

Most Jewish people do not mind reasoned discussion of the many faults of the government in Israel. I don't mind. It is the intentional use of overblown language, intentionally divorced from actual meaning, that sounds quite a bit like demonization.

And before you say that you knew you would be called anti-semitic for what you said, let me say that I knew you would say you knew you would be called anti-semitic. You cannot pre-empt someone who has seen your shit a thousand times before.

[Benedict1991]

Benedict,
there is not much to argue with since you only make conclusory claims. There have been people on this site who have said things about Muslims that are a thousand times worse than what you are saying about Judaism and Jewish people. I did try to argue with them as did many decent people, but I suppose I can't be too bent out of shape since you only have 22 posts, and this is afterall the internet. I am Jewish, and as Stavros has said a lot of people in Israel are not observant or particularly religious.

I frequently hear people who say that an attack on Israel is not an attack on Jewish people. However, with you this is a moot point since the basis of your criticism of Israel is its Jewish character.

I will note that even the phrase evolving fascist state is not semantically correct, since what you are trying to say is that it is evolving into a fascist state and what the phrase actually says is that they are already fascist and continuing to morph (into what I don't know).

You don't have to be observant, only in your heart if you believe that non-Jew are animal or not born with the same level of soul, then you can do just about anything.

Don't forget, it's not the first time Jews have massacred or done horrible acts to non-Jews in that area. Jewish Home Party would not be as observant as super Haredi Jews, but JHP is ready to kill non-Jews and is headed by former commando, while Haredi Jews protest even a young man in their ranks drafted into combat units.


So level of observance isn't as important as tribal-supremacist feeling…which is supported through Judaism itself. That is essentially what Judaism was for many centuries. The reform and secular humanist Jews can't even control the government, let alone get a majority of the Jews in the country.

Also, it's interesting that it is allowed to say most things about other groups, but Jews? No. A Jew can mock other groups, or offer strongly negative critique, but to say a bad thing about Judaism? Then you must be censored and ostracized. No one can speak ill of the chosen people, eh?

[Prospero]

Anti-zionism is often a mask for anti-semitism. Which is what I discern in Benedict's postings.

The presence of extreme right wingers does not mean a nation is evolving into a fascist state.

Don't know where he hails from but it is worthy also pointing out that the US and UK among others also had "cosy" relations with South Africa.

[Benedict1991]

But would it be acceptable to call Hungary a fascist state because of the presence of Jobbik as a minority party in their political system?

The reason the phrase evolving fascist state is being used is so that you can divorce yourself entirely from the definition of fascism. They have not reached that point but you say they are on their way so you do not have to make any argument that is empirically correct. Then you can make a few vague allusions to Judaism, supremacism, and apartheid.

Most Jewish people do not mind reasoned discussion of the many faults of the government in Israel. I don't mind. It is the intentional use of overblown language, intentionally divorced from actual meaning, that sounds quite a bit like demonization.

And before you say that you knew you would be called anti-semitic for what you said, let me say that I knew you would say you knew you would be called anti-semitic. You cannot pre-empt someone who has seen your shit a thousand times before.

That's why the idea was evolving fascist state. Israel is much farther down that road than Hungary, but both or neither could eventually become a fascist state.

[Prospero]

A post since I composed this from Benedict who, in getting riled up, is beginning to show his true colours.... morphing into.... evolving into.... lol

[Prospero]

And where do you, benedict, get the notion that Jews see others as animals or not born with the "same level of soul." Quote your sources please ...