Cross Dressers = She ???

[AllanahStarrNYC]

there is a clear difference between being a transsexual, crossdresser, tv, or drag queen.

though the terms are often used as interchangeable labels to describe a tg person-

there is clearly a difference between someone who surgically alters his/her body & takes hormones to change their physical appearance- someone who dresses in the oposites sex clothing for sexual gratification, or someone who does it to perform, or for fun.

they are not the same things.

if someone lives as the opposite sex FULL time, then sheor he is a transsexual

if someone is 'part time' then they are not- simple

though it would be peoper etiquette to address someone with the proper pro-noun as they express their gender threough dress at the moment

it has been my experience that most tv's, drag queens, and cd's, see themselves as men and reffer to themselves as 'he' when out of 'drag'

[MacShreach]

there is a clear difference between being a transsexual, crossdresser, tv, or drag queen.

though the terms are often used as interchangeable labels to describe a tg person-

there is clearly a difference between someone who surgically alters his/her body & takes hormones to change their physical appearance- someone who dresses in the oposites sex clothing for sexual gratification, or someone who does it to perform, or for fun.

they are not the same things.

if someone lives as the opposite sex FULL time, then sheor he is a transsexual

if someone is 'part time' then they are not- simple

though it would be peoper etiquette to address someone with the proper pro-noun as they express their gender threough dress at the moment

it has been my experience that most tv's, drag queens, and cd's, see themselves as men and reffer to themselves as 'he' when out of 'drag'

Exactly, and eloquently put as always.

[Ecstatic]

Just because it quacks like a duck, it ain't necessarily a duck. When I started reading this thread, I was going to post extensively in response, but Mac, Joanna, and Allanah have covered the ground I was going to cover far more eloquently than I would have. Well said, all. All I'll add is that, from the outside looking at someone else, without knowing that person, it's difficult if not impossible to say whether they are crossdressing (defined as Mac defined it above) or transitioning. I do think there's a difference, which is not evident based on immediate appearance, between dressing and transitioning, where dressing is part of the process in the latter case but the process entire in the former.

I also agree with the etiquette of addressing anyone presenting as a woman as "she" while dressed; that is only common courtesey.

[endo420]

The aye's have it. Cross-dressers and transvestites will thus be referred to as "he" in all future posts. Just because someone puts on wig and makeup does not make them a she or worthy of that distinction. Because someone shaves their legs it does not make them a woman. It might make them a professional bicycle rider. The overwhelming majority here seem to agree.

My next question: At what stage does the balance of power change? For example, when a cross dresser does laser, or breast implants, or none of the above but begins living as a woman. What enables them to become "she"? If Dick Cheney started dressing and living and dressing as a woman tomorrow, looking exactly like he does. Does he get to have us call him her or she?

[RangeHova]

there is a clear difference between being a transsexual, crossdresser, tv, or drag queen.

I think in most cases that is true but in the time that I have been around girls and got to know people I have found that in many cases the lines bewteen the titles can be blurred.

One of my good friends is a drag queen but since I know her and we have really talked on much deeper levels she really shows distinct feelings of being transsexual, she's just not willing to do the fulltime thing for a multitude of reasons. The fact that 'she' lives most of her social life in the role of a female is enough for her.

I've known other lived as females on the scene and lived androgynous outside of the scene. We have all seen the girls who lives revolve around the scene and the rest of the world, the rest of thier life is just about sleeping, eating, and getting ready for the next show, ball, party, club, trick, etc.

Like I mentioned in other replies to this post, many CDs and TVs spend years not all that in touch with thier transsexual feelings and end up transitioning later on in life. The GRS surgeon on that HBO special on gender was a prime example of that. She spent years thinking she was arun of the mill male who happened to like panties and bras under her scrubs then later realized that she was a TS then went on to get surgery. Her story is not that rare.

[Jamie Michelle]

OK.. then all these are she... and the only thing that makes a he a he and a she a she is the cloths they wear, a wig, and makeup.

Quite. When a man dresses up in a skirt he is still a man in a skirt. A male who turns himself into a woman, takes hormones, perhaps undergoes surgery but most of all lives as a woman is TS and gets called "she." As in "She earned it."

Everyone who posts on this forum is a faggot. You can call anyone you want a she, but if you fuck them and they're a genetic male, you're still fucking a genetic male. It feels nice to pretend, but never forget that.

Now, there are all kinds of faggots. Some faggots are more feminine than others. Some are so feminine that it makes other faggots feel as if they're straight when they're fucking another male. But you're still a faggot.

So, we've got a faggot asking the question as to which faggots ought to be called a "she." The answer to that question is to ask the faggot who is being addressed. That is the polite and proper thing to do.

But of course, some of the faggots here are disturbed by that notion, since they want to pretend that they aren't a faggot, and that pretention is easier in their own minds when they can make a distinction as to the other faggots they term "she" or "he." So if they fuck another genetic male they term a "she," then all is well in the world. Of course, other genetic males who aren't quite as feminine ought not be called a "she," as that would confuse the pretention in their own minds of themselves not being a faggot. And we musn't have that.

Hence we get silly questions by insecure faggots asking which of the other faggots ought to be called "she" or "he."

[katieftv]

[quote="AllanahStarrNYC"]there is a clear difference between being a transsexual, crossdresser, tv, or drag queen.

IMO and IME there is a big differenec between being a CD and being a TV. I first dressed at the age of 7. When I dress I like to do the whole thing makeup, wig fully shaved etc.

IMO a CD only concentrates from the neck down hence the rather unfortunate term here in the UK for most CDs of "Hairy Panties Wearers"

Again IMO being CD is more about a fetish for female clothing where as to me being TV is so much more.

When dressed I like to be refered to as "she" to be called mate, guy, bud etc is insulting. I go out dressed unlike most CDs. There is a whole world of difference but also a whole world of different CDs and TVs.

Each to their own, do your own thing, be waht you are and call yourself what you will. Unfortunately many TSs look down on us TVs thinking they are in some way better than us CDs/TVs Shame really. TVs IMO are all to some extent TRANSGENDERED. Just my 2 pence worth.

[Teabagger Vance]

Quite. When a man dresses up in a skirt he is still a man in a skirt. A male who turns himself into a woman, takes hormones, perhaps undergoes surgery but most of all lives as a woman is TS and gets called "she." As in "She earned it."

Everyone who posts on this forum is a faggot. You can call anyone you want a she, but if you fuck them and they're a genetic male, you're still fucking a genetic male. It feels nice to pretend, but never forget that.

Now, there are all kinds of faggots. Some faggots are more feminine than others. Some are so feminine that it makes other faggots feel as if they're straight when they're fucking another male. But you're still a faggot.

So, we've got a faggot asking the question as to which faggots ought to be called a "she." The answer to that question is to ask the faggot who is being addressed. That is the polite and proper thing to do.

But of course, some of the faggots here are disturbed by that notion, since they want to pretend that they aren't a faggot, and that pretention is easier in their own minds when they can make a distinction as to the other faggots they term "she" or "he." So if they fuck another genetic male they term a "she," then all is well in the world. Of course, other genetic males who aren't quite as feminine ought not be called a "she," as that would confuse the pretention in their own minds of themselves not being a faggot. And we musn't have that.

Hence we get silly questions by insecure faggots asking which of the other faggots ought to be called "she" or "he."

Who are you to presume to speak for everyone on this board?

You're no more than a troll. Go back under your bridge.

[MacShreach]

Everyone who posts on this forum is a faggot. You can call anyone you want a she, but if you fuck them and they're a genetic male, you're still fucking a genetic male.

Who are you to presume to speak for everyone on this board?

You're no more than a troll. Go back under your bridge.

I'd call that a correct ID.

[Kirky25]

a CD shouldnt be called she