Shaming men attracted to Trans Women...

[rick_932]

that doesn't make any sense. if they didn't know they were with trans-women, who did they think they were with?

in regards to taking pictures with trans-women, some guys just don't know. they think theyre with genetic females. chingy didn't know he was taking a pic with a transsexual (sidney star).

and why state your not gay if you don't know someone is trans? does that then mean they thought the person they were taking a picture with was gay?

that's the point Janet is trying to make. In this situation, even though these guys know they aren't gay, because they were seen with a transsexual, even a harmless picture they took not knowing the woman was trans, once the public finds out about it, they have the tendency to 1.) assume that the guy knew she was trans and 2.) label them as gay because there's no other category to put them in. So then the guys have to declare publicly that they aren't gay. This is especially true in the hip hop and pro sports community because the men feel their manhood/image is being questioned and they have to protect it.

also i don't get your second part in regards to "living openly trans but a quiet life"

There are many man-transwoman couples who are open with their relationship...not afraid to go out in public together and live quiet lives (go to work, store, back home, etc...) because no one harasses them, especially in liberal areas. Janet is saying if there was no stigma of being labeled as gay if you're with a trans-woman, that you'd see more trans couples being open, out in the public, with their relationship instead of just keeping it behind closed doors.

[bluesoul]

Sure it does. Random star is photographed with a fan that he doesn't know is trans. Gossip blogs reveal that said fan was trans and begin insinuating that if random male star is willing to be photographed with trannies, even unknowningly, then there must be something "not straight" with his sexuality. Random male star then has to publicly come out and defend his heterosexuality, generally making comments to the effect that he would never do a "dude in a dress" and simply didn't know that the fan in question was trans, otherwise he wouldn't have agreed to be photographed with "him".

okay. i get what you're saying, but as i pointed out earlier (first page of this thread) the "male star" photographed with the transsexual had been taken advantage of as she had lied to the gossip blog that she had sexual relations with the "male star". in fact, she did this for a long time- on both radio and print



there is obviously the question of how these gossip blogs "discover" that someone is trans if they are not going around saying so as it would be much easier to accuse any "male star" for being gay every-time they are photographed with another man rather than waiting until they are photographed with a transwoman

also- i doubt the mentioned "male stars" are the only people who have taken photos with transsexuals. i'm sure famous people take pictures with transsexuals all the time- but this is just one of those rare occasions when the moon is in retrograde and someone looking to further their career (or notoriety) takes advantage of a situation and calls wolf

as in the case with bimbo winehouse- who soley got into mister cee's car strictly to record their conversation. so it's almost like both sidney starr and bimbo winehouse were aware prior to entrapping these two men that the backlash about their status being trans and crossdresser (respectively) would be seen negatively and they did everything to support this backlash.

so it's kinda hard to see janet's point when the people who she has used as examples to illustrate her point, actually facilitated in victimizing the men

[rick_932]

okay. i get what you're saying, but as i pointed out earlier (first page of this thread) the "male star" photographed with the transsexual had been taken advantage of as she had lied to the gossip blog that she had sexual relations with the "male star". in fact, she did this for a long time- on both radio and print

and after that apology chingy wanted and still to this day wants word to spread that he is and has never been gay. if accusations of chingy sleeping with a female prostitute had come up, people wouldn't have cared but because the accusations were about a transsexual, his heterosexuality was called into question and he felt the need to come out and defend it. If the public wouldn't have labeled him as gay due to the accusation, he wouldn't have had to come out so forcefully to deny that he wasn't gay.

so it's kinda hard to see janet's point when the people who she has used as examples to illustrate her point, actually facilitated in victimizing the men

again, her point is more about how society labels the men, even if they aren't at fault.

[tsmirandameadows]

And I'm picking up a different vibe from many of the newer t-girls, i.e. less shaming of the guys who are attracted to them, less self-loathing, more positive outlook on their future as trans-women.

Well, I can certainly see the first item on the list, but if if I'm an example of LESS self-loathing and MORE positivity in comparison to previous generations of tgirls, I shudder to think what it was like for them. Fending off my own self-hatred and maintaining positivity about my future are the two hardest daily tasks I deal with. Most days I don't succeed with them.

[bluesoul]

and after that apology chingy wanted and still to this day wants word to spread that he is and has never been gay. if accusations of chingy sleeping with a female prostitute had come up, people wouldn't have cared but because the accusations were about a transsexual, his heterosexuality was called into question and he felt the need to come out and defend it. If the public wouldn't have labeled him as gay due to the accusation, he wouldn't have had to come out so forcefully to deny that he wasn't gay.



again, her point is more about how society labels the men, even if they aren't at fault.

gotcha. sorry if it took a long time for this to comes through. here are my thoughts:

i think this is mostly a problem with "being gay" being seen as being something negative. lots of people come on this forum and ask if they're gay and we tell them "it doesn't matter just as long as you're happy" or "labels don't matter". clearly that advice is inaccurate because people do worry about labels.

there is also the fact that (eg. in the case of chingy) they don't want to be labelled wrongly or others who are hesitant (eg. in the case of mister cee) with being labelled a certain way (gay).

there is also the fact that society does not define being gay the same way a majority of the people in the trans community define being gay. this is the reason why in the video where mister cee is being interviewed by a radio host he says "i'm not gay. i just occasionally enjoy getting fellatio from a man who looks like a woman"

[Ben]

Transgender Equality and Nondiscrimination:





True Transgender Stories:

[maddygirl]

Why are men so scared of being called gay? That's the real question, lol.

[rick_932]

there is also the fact that society does not define being gay the same way a majority of the people in the trans community define being gay. this is the reason why in the video where mister cee is being interviewed by a radio host he says "i'm not gay. i just occasionally enjoy getting fellatio from a man who looks like a woman"

I agree. Men who are attracted to transsexuals and not other men shouldn't be labeled as gay by society. This morning when Mister Cee kept saying he wasn't gay, I understood where he was coming from but most people didn't because all they saw was him having a fetish of being sucked off by a guy who likes to dress in women's clothes.

I don't know what it'll take to change the perception of a guy being gay because he's attracted to transsexuals and not men. Maybe time...

[Michelle Firestone]

Michelle and Miranda, thanks for sharing your perspectives. It occurs to me that you're part of a - for lack of a better term - new generation of t-girls. And I'm picking up a different vibe from many of the newer t-girls, i.e. less shaming of the guys who are attracted to them, less self-loathing, more positive outlook on their future as trans-women. The article speaks a current truth, but I wonder if things aren't starting to gradually change for the better.

I love all my fans as long as they aren't creeps. Why shouldn't I? They chose me for their sexual fantasy. It's a great thing. Even if they were creepin hard & they overstepped boundaries, I would never call them fags... ugh thats just uncalled for!

& in real life.. idk.. it would never occur to me to be mean like that even if I was rejecting someone.

[mikejones]

Great thread here with some very thoughtful posts. I have been with many T-girls both in LTRs and short term flings. In real life I believe that most T-girls are actually friendly and appreciative toward men who like them. Not all, but most, at least from my experience.

The negativity discussed here is probably more present on the internet than in real life.