Disappointed when Producers of TS content let people make jokes on our behalf

[BellaBellucci]

You want a producer of trans porn (the source of a LOT of negative stereotypes) to stand up to his audience because they have those negative stereotypes?

Most peoples first experience with trans people is porn. The public STRONGLY associates trans people with sex work.

I have nothing wrong with the porn industry (obviously), but it seems strange you want porn fans to be respectful ... when all they want is to (seemingly) get off and objectify you to the extreme.

It's all a fantasy, though, and one fans pay for - so the line between real and make believe should be pretty clear. Try treating a porn star like a piece of meat in the real world and watch what happens!

~BB~

[GroobySteven]

You want a producer of trans porn (the source of a LOT of negative stereotypes) to stand up to his audience because they have those negative stereotypes?

Most peoples first experience with trans people is porn. The public STRONGLY associates trans people with sex work.

I have nothing wrong with the porn industry (obviously), but it seems strange you want porn fans to be respectful ... when all they want is to (seemingly) get off and objectify you to the extreme.

Absolutely a producer can and should stand up for their models. Although we (the collective producers) may produce porn and within that use some words that are "porn words" and not appropriate for real life situations, there is nothing wrong in being able to educate and promote the equality and awareness that all the fans should adhere to in real life situations. I think we've accomplished quite a bit of that over the years - Tony Vee, Buddy Wood, Radius Dark, Sammi Mancini, Frank, Joanna Jet, Bob (BobsTgirls), Joey Silvera, Lucia Matthews, Remy, Jack Flash, Kilakali, Ecstatic, Kevin Dong etc. are all fans of the TS genre foremost and have TS friends. We may shoot or produce porn - but I don't think any of us try to show the girls in any light other than they've revealed themselves to be.

[BellaBellucci]

Wow.

~BB~

[Genetic]

Apologies for multiple quotes, lots of very good points to comment on.

I think the problem with Facebook is, there is no "unlike" button.

Yeah there is so he could have easily unliked it.

I always hated the word tranny. It's always been the most offensive word to me. Even in the adult industry I think it should be unacceptable to refer to people as "tranny's".

I agree with Jamie on this that it's a word and it only has the power you give it. Why should an entire industry change because you don't like something? I don't drink alcohol and I personally find it to be the root of a lot of society's problems. Should we stop selling alcohol because I find it offensive? I wouldn't want that to happen. It's like we tell kids - if someone calls you a name you don't like, ignore it. But then as adults we try to ban everything that we don't like. This isn't an attack on you personally, but I do think that our culture has shifted towards everyone being offended by everything.

Plus, tranny is short for transgendered. To wipe out the use of tranny, a new word would be needed to identify ts that couldn't be abbreviated to tranny.

I remember when I just started out transitioning before I was really passable I used to go out places shopping and stuff. Sometimes I would walk the mall and notice that women with baby strollers coming my way in a straight line would slowly curve off into an angle away from me. It made me very sad. I don't know why our society is like this. If she thinks I'm going to rob her or harm her baby in a public place is ridiculous. They think I don't notice, but I see it all the time. There is deeply rooted prejudice with many people and transsexuals.

Agreed because it's seen as some sort of sexual deviation rather than what it actually is. But the issue here is that it's human nature to fear things we don't understand; I'm not saying it's right but this sort of behaviour happens with a lot of minorities, not just transexuals. As a bearded man, you should see the horror I can generate if I smile at a child...cause you know, any man with a beard is obviously a child abuser and not someone who is being nice.

Stuff like this will keep happening as long as transsexual females keep associating themselves with words like "shemale" "chick with dick" "tranny" and hanging out on LGBT floats with hairy guys in wigs sucking each other's dicks in public view.

In most (straight, not gay friendly) people's minds, transsexual babysitter might as well be male babysitter. Someone with a "penis" babysitting children. In their eyes the potential is there for some sort of perverted rape fantasy or scenario, be it a male , or transsexual individual (their view, not mine)

Two very very good points. Point two comes back to what I just said above that the general public's mass-hysteria belief is that any male left alone with a child is bound to abuse them.

Point one is something that identifies a lot of problems. Firstly I've never understood the idea of "gay pride" parades where you have gay men dressed as women/fairies/sailors/in bondage gear. Surely if all year round the gay community is trying to get across that they are no different from everyone else and not the stereotypes they are portrayed as, then it's going to be a bad idea to play up to all those stereotypes on a day where there will be a lot of press coverage.

Secondly, I've never understood why transgendered women tolerate cross dressers. I would have thought that crossdressers generate a lot of negativity and misconceptions for ts women because it reinforces the public opinion of a biological male in women's clothes (whether transitioning or not) must be some kind of sexual deviant.

You want a producer of trans porn (the source of a LOT of negative stereotypes) to stand up to his audience because they have those negative stereotypes?

Most peoples first experience with trans people is porn. The public STRONGLY associates trans people with sex work.

I have nothing wrong with the porn industry (obviously), but it seems strange you want porn fans to be respectful ... when all they want is to (seemingly) get off and objectify you to the extreme.

I think there's a few things here.
1. Yes a producer should stand up to his audience. Yes he plays into stereotypes as do producers of any material, whether it's porn, mainstream movies or television, but on a forum like Facebook it gives an opportunity for open dialogue. Steve V had a very good opportunity there to change a person's perception by having a calm discussion with them.

2. I think it's unfair to blame porn fans for their perceptions of trans people. The surgery required and costs of transitioning is huge and I think it's safe to say that there is a very large percentage of trans women who do porn or escorting to pay for it. I'd be tempted to even say the vast majority although that is purely speculation on my part. Either way, it's understandable that the porn buyer will associate ts with sex work especially if they join a forum like this one and discover that all their favourite stars escort on the side?

3. Can you blame porn fans for objectifying porn stars? Surely that's the whole point of porn/any kind of titilation? The guy in the Diet Coke ads - does anyone look at him and wonder what his hobbies and interests are? Probably not, the viewer is going to be objectifying him and staring at his six pack. That's the point of it. Now is it the viewer's fault he is objectified or is it a symbiotic relationship? Diet Coke man pays his bills by objectifying himself, his audience generates ad revenue for Diet Coke by objectifying him and thereby ensure he has a job.

How many ts stars try to use their fame to develop themselves outside the objectification? The only one who springs to mind is Bailey Jay who has tried to launch a music career from it, has done her own video blog channel (or something) and tried to portray herself as more than wanking material.

[amanda_s]

Secondly, I've never understood why transgendered women tolerate cross dressers. I would have thought that crossdressers generate a lot of negativity and misconceptions for ts women because it reinforces the public opinion of a biological male in women's clothes (whether transitioning or not) must be some kind of sexual deviant.

That seems a strange thing to say. Crossdressers are for the most part transgendered themselves, just to a different degree to transsexuals. If you believe that transsexuals should not tolerate crossdressers because it generates negativity and misconceptions do you also believe therefore that genetic women should not tolerate MtF transsexuals because they also could generate negativity and misconceptions? There are plenty of feminists who are completely intolerant of MtF transsexuals because they believe they reinforce gender stereotypes. What about non-sex worker transsexuals, should they be intolerant of sex-worker transsexuals?

3. Can you blame porn fans for objectifying porn stars? Surely that's the whole point of porn/any kind of titilation? The guy in the Diet Coke ads - does anyone look at him and wonder what his hobbies and interests are? Probably not, the viewer is going to be objectifying him and staring at his six pack. That's the point of it. Now is it the viewer's fault he is objectified or is it a symbiotic relationship? Diet Coke man pays his bills by objectifying himself, his audience generates ad revenue for Diet Coke by objectifying him and thereby ensure he has a job.

There's a big difference between objectifying and disrespecting. There's nothing wrong with not wondering what the Diet Coke guy's hobbies and interests are but there definitely is something wrong if you judge him as somehow less than human simply because he uses his body to make a living.

[christianxxx]

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[LilyRox]

Absolutely a producer can and should stand up for their models. Although we (the collective producers) may produce porn and within that use some words that are "porn words" and not appropriate for real life situations, there is nothing wrong in being able to educate and promote the equality and awareness that all the fans should adhere to in real life situations. I think we've accomplished quite a bit of that over the years - Tony Vee, Buddy Wood, Radius Dark, Sammi Mancini, Frank, Joanna Jet, Bob (BobsTgirls), Joey Silvera, Lucia Matthews, Remy, Jack Flash, Kilakali, Ecstatic, Kevin Dong etc. are all fans of the TS genre foremost and have TS friends. We may shoot or produce porn - but I don't think any of us try to show the girls in any light other than they've revealed themselves to be.

Yeah I agree. I don't think the context he used those words were right.

[TempestTS]

Absolutely a producer can and should stand up for their models. Although we (the collective producers) may produce porn and within that use some words that are "porn words" and not appropriate for real life situations, there is nothing wrong in being able to educate and promote the equality and awareness that all the fans should adhere to in real life situations. I think we've accomplished quite a bit of that over the years - Tony Vee, Buddy Wood, Radius Dark, Sammi Mancini, Frank, Joanna Jet, Bob (BobsTgirls), Joey Silvera, Lucia Matthews, Remy, Jack Flash, Kilakali, Ecstatic, Kevin Dong etc. are all fans of the TS genre foremost and have TS friends. We may shoot or produce porn - but I don't think any of us try to show the girls in any light other than they've revealed themselves to be.

EXACTLY - porn is "what" we do not "Who" we are as a person regardless of if your a producer or a model how you carry yourself defines who you are not where your paycheck comes from. Musically Im headlining an all ages show on the 20th and I have fans specifically bringing their kids to meet me, they dont give two shits that I do porn its about how I live my life that matters.

‘Being’ is more valued than "doing". - BRUCE LEE

[Jamie French]

I like the word 'tranny'. Always thought it was cute and nothing more than shorthand for transgendered/sexual/etc. I wouldn't let anyone take it away from me.

[Rabbiteyes]

We may shoot or produce porn - but I don't think any of us try to show the girls in any light other than they've revealed themselves to be.

We often give the general population a great deal of credit. That they are capable of differentiating fantasy from reality (tv, movies, books, commercials, porn...all generally engineered fantasies). Yet, it is shown repeatedly through every culture that these things do affect the mind and how we think about subjects (and groups of people).

This is actually a good explanation of the subtle way this works. I admit before I started to transition, I thought of trans people as drag queens or sex workers (and had rather negative views of them).

http://www.good.is/posts/how-i-learn...sgender-people

2. I think it's unfair to blame porn fans for their perceptions of trans people.

I don't really blame them though. They see the same message over and over again of what a trans person is... so they slowly start to believe it (and apply it to every trans person).

Heck, I've seen the same thing from people who work in porn (even directed towards me). I'm not involved in the porn industry (actually I have a small game studio), but I'm still approached and treated like a working girl just trying to make a couple hundred bucks for a scene.

I don't blame them, all the trans people they know are like that. So it makes sense they would assume any trans person is probably looking for the same things. It is the same situation with fans of porn.

And, well, the entire situation of "why are trans people discriminated against" isn't just on porns shoulders. It also has a lot to do with homophobia, misogyny (which is actually related to homophobia, funny enough), and a host of other social status quo thinking.

Secondly, I've never understood why transgendered women tolerate cross dressers.

It would make us horrible people to turn around and discriminate against cross dressers The problem isn't cross dressers, the problem is the ignorant public who thinks trans are that.

It would be like a straight person distancing themselves and shunning gay people because they were afraid that association would label themselves gay (oh wait, straight people were doing that for a long time...and it proved them to be horrible cowards).