Whoa...This shit is serious! Tranny*****$10,000 REWARD***** - t4m - 36 (costa mesa)

[Corran]

I've read all the arguments in this thread and most have been well thought out and made for an entertaining read. I would like to offer this: Say I met a beautiful young woman (gg) and she was down on her luck. I took her in to my home because she needed help and, not going to lie, maybe hoping something extra comes out of it. Sex, a relationship...
She cleans out my bank account, steals from neighbors etc. etc. before I finally get the good sense to send her packing. Because of my experience with her do I just assume all beautiful young women are like this and state that opinion on an internet forum that specifically caters to them?
Then expect everyone to just agree with me and congratulate me on exposing the bitter truth about women and not give me any negative feedback?

Not if I'm living in that place called Reality.

Bottom line, not all women are the same, not all men are the same and not all transgender women are the same. After exclusively dating them for 20 years I think you would have noticed that by now.

[tsmirandameadows]

Maybe because of my point that, today, too many trans women (more the norm than the exception) end up living lifestyles, for many reasons that I do understand, that don't shine a positive light on the TG community as a whole. That in turn makes the trans women Trish speaks of not want to be associated with that part of the trans world (Escorts, porn stars, bar girls).

Trish, I do know there are many trans women living normal everyday lives (I do know many, contrary to what you may assume about me). Even a decade ago, it was much easier to find an actual "date" than it is today. So *maybe* your thinking and viewpoint is a tad bit outdated.

Currently, the general perception of "transsexuals" today has highly negative tones because exactly what you say. There are many trans women who do lead normal lives, but the positive in that is downed out by the negatives of that general perception and many of your trans sisters who do opt to do porn, escort, and live the party lifestyle.

So where are the voices of the "normal" trans woman to offset the negative perceptions and stereotypes?

All I can say was I spent 3 and a half years being unemployed out of college, despite being intelligent, well-spoken, and having both a record of academic excellence and employable skills. I could not get a job to save my life. One by one, I watched my highly talented classmates, with whom I stood shoulder to shoulder, get hired and started in remunerative careers. Within a few months, even the C+ average classmates who had cared far more about getting crunked than learning got picked up for entry level professional jobs with salaries in the $50-60k range. Soon it felt like I was the only one left who couldn't get a god damn job. What was my problem? I was trans, early in transition, and did not have any money to accelerate my transition to the point that I would be even remotely passable.

It quickly became apparent that I needed to get a job, any job, even being willing to settle for the grocery bagger job I had had in high school, but even that was evidently beyond my reach. I was turned down at Burger King, In-n-Out, Walmart, Ikea, Target, Macy's, etc. Any place that was hiring I applied at, because 6 months of a targeted job search for a professional position relevant to my skill set had led no where and I was desperate for work. When bottom of the barrel jobs weren't panning out, I figured I could recalibrate again, and taught myself linux system administration, some scripting languages, and various enterprise network services, all in the hopes of getting some sort of paid sysadmin internship. I interviewed at several firms, always doing well in the technical interviews, but never getting a callback. At this point I began to despair.

Finally, after three and a half years of a job search filled with constant rejection and discrimination, I landed, by pure luck, a job as a residential counselor at a group home in the California foster care system, having lived in a similar group home myself as a teenager. The work was paid minimum wage, offered no benefits, holidays were work days, and time off requests could not be accommodated the 18 months I worked there. The work environment was extremely stressful, facing highly emotionally charged situations day-in, day-out. One day you're breaking up a fight between residents, another you're performing CPR on a resident whom you found in her room having attempted to hang herself, another you're watching kids who have been dealt horribly shitty hands completely self-destruct because their lives are so miserable, and meanwhile there's so little you can do to help them.

I could not hang with those working conditions, working conditions which led to an average attrition rate of three months for residential counselors. I did my best because the work was important to me, but in the end, after a year and a half, it was too hard and my mental health utterly collapsed on the job, requiring a leave of absence. The minimum wage I earned at that job, however, was used to finance a better a hormone regimen, and some facial hair removal, so that by the time I burnt out, I was actually quite passable. Still my ID documents did not match my new appearance, so even despite no longer being visibly gender variant, I found myself just as unhireable as I had ever been, as I looked for work after leaving the group home job. This was crushing. The take away was that as long as people know I am transgendered then they do not want me, no matter what my qualifications, no matter how well I blend into my new gender role. I could fix my ID with a legal name and gender change, but then I'd just be living in fear that any potential employer would eventually realize I was trans and change their mind about continuing to employ me.

So I got into porn and sex work, because this is the only industry which will hire transsexual women without hesitation or discrimination. I also happen to like it. If my new profession gives society the wrong idea about transwomen, then society needs to fuck off because it never gave me an honest chance. That some transwomen have been able to find a way to survive in mainstream society is great, but that's because they beat overwhelming odds, not because the deck isn't as stacked against us as is possible. Frankly, I've only known two under 30 transwomen who haven't had to resort to sex work as a result of exactly the kind of experience I just described.

As to those of us who become "party girls", what do you really expect? Society has made it perfectly clear how unwanted we are. There's no loving husband, white-picket fence, and two and a half children waiting for us if we plan for the future. What exactly do we have to look forward to, aside from aging out of sex work and no longer being able to make a living at it? Sure, I can carefully invest my earnings so as to live off passive income by the time I retire from sex work, but to what end? What use is a living when you will always be an outsider and unwanted? What else is there but to have a few fleeting moments of fun and enjoyment before even that too is gone?

Sorry, but I have a big problem with someone who has never been through what I have just described trying to say that any transsexual who wants to make it in the mainstream can. I was so wounded by society's rejection of me that, at this point, even if there is something out there that I could potentially achieve -- like a career, a home, a family -- I simply have to engage in self-protection by not even trying for it, because the continued rejection such trying would entail is no longer within my capacity to endure.

[robertlouis]

All I can say was I spent 3 and a half years being unemployed out of college, despite being intelligent, well-spoken, and having both a record of academic excellence and employable skills. I could not get a job to save my life. One by one, I watched my highly talented classmates, with whom I stood shoulder to shoulder, get hired and started in remunerative careers. Within a few months, even the C+ average classmates who had cared far more about getting crunked than learning got picked up for entry level professional jobs with salaries in the $50-60k range. Soon it felt like I was the only one left who couldn't get a god damn job. What was my problem? I was trans, early in transition, and did not have any money to accelerate my transition to the point that I would be even remotely passable.

It quickly became apparent that I needed to get a job, any job, even being willing to settle for the grocery bagger job I had had in high school, but even that was evidently beyond my reach. I was turned down at Burger King, In-n-Out, Walmart, Ikea, Target, Macy's, etc. Any place that was hiring I applied at, because 6 months of a targeted job search for a professional position relevant to my skill set had led no where and I was desperate for work. When bottom of the barrel jobs weren't panning out, I figured I could recalibrate again, and taught myself linux system administration, some scripting languages, and various enterprise network services, all in the hopes of getting some sort of paid sysadmin internship. I interviewed at several firms, always doing well in the technical interviews, but never getting a callback. At this point I began to despair.

Finally, after three and a half years of a job search filled with constant rejection and discrimination, I landed, by pure luck, a job as a residential counselor at a group home in the California foster care system, having lived in a similar group home myself as a teenager. The work was paid minimum wage, offered no benefits, holidays were work days, and time off requests could not be accommodated the 18 months I worked there. The work environment was extremely stressful, facing highly emotionally charged situations day-in, day-out. One day you're breaking up a fight between residents, another you're performing CPR on a resident whom you found in her room having attempted to hang herself, another you're watching kids who have been dealt horribly shitty hands completely self-destruct because their lives are so miserable, and meanwhile there's so little you can do to help them.

I could not hang with those working conditions, working conditions which led to an average attrition rate of three months for residential counselors. I did my best because the work was important to me, but in the end, after a year and a half, it was too hard and my mental health utterly collapsed on the job, requiring a leave of absence. The minimum wage I earned at that job, however, was used to finance a better a hormone regimen, and some facial hair removal, so that by the time I burnt out, I was actually quite passable. Still my ID documents did not match my new appearance, so even despite no longer being visibly gender variant, I found myself just as unhireable as I had ever been, as I looked for work after leaving the group home job. This was crushing. The take away was that as long as people know I am transgendered then they do not want me, no matter what my qualifications, no matter how well I blend into my new gender role. I could fix my ID with a legal name and gender change, but then I'd just be living in fear that any potential employer would eventually realize I was trans and change their mind about continuing to employ me.

So I got into porn and sex work, because this is the only industry which will hire transsexual women without hesitation or discrimination. I also happen to like it. If my new profession gives society the wrong idea about transwomen, then society needs to fuck off because it never gave me an honest chance. That some transwomen have been able to find a way to survive in mainstream society is great, but that's because they beat overwhelming odds, not because the deck isn't as stacked against us as is possible. Frankly, I've only known two under 30 transwomen who haven't had to resort to sex work as a result of exactly the kind of experience I just described.

As to those of us who become "party girls", what do you really expect? Society has made it perfectly clear how unwanted we are. There's no loving husband, white-picket fence, and two and a half children waiting for us if we plan for the future. What exactly do we have to look forward to, aside from aging out of sex work and no longer being able to make a living at it? Sure, I can carefully invest my earnings so as to live off passive income by the time I retire from sex work, but to what end? What use is a living when you will always be an outsider and unwanted? What else is there but to have a few fleeting moments of fun and enjoyment before even that too is gone?

Sorry, but I have a big problem with someone who has never been through what I have just described trying to say that any transsexual who wants to make it in the mainstream can. I was so wounded by society's rejection of me that, at this point, even if there is something out there that I could potentially achieve -- like a career, a home, a family -- I simply have to engage in self-protection by not even trying for it, because the continued rejection such trying would entail is no longer within my capacity to endure.

Fantastic post Miranda, and it shines important light on the reality out there for so many trans people both male and female. It takes courage, determination and above all an awful lot of luck not to be attracted to the porn world and it's entirely understandable why so many girls end up there.

But the real scandal in all of this is that employers have free rein to discriminate against trans candidates. We can congratulate ourselves for the superficial gains in recognition that happen every now and then, but until this millstone is removed, people will still be allowed to vent their nastiest prejudices unchecked and no real progress can be achieved.

It's a very worthwhile and necessary campaign subject.

[tsmirandameadows]

Fantastic post Miranda, and it shines important light on the reality out there for so many trans people both male and female. It takes courage, determination and above all an awful lot of luck not to be attracted to the porn world and it's entirely understandable why so many girls end up there.

But the real scandal in all of this is that employers have free rein to discriminate against trans candidates. We can congratulate ourselves for the superficial gains in recognition that happen every now and then, but until this millstone is removed, people will still be allowed to vent their nastiest prejudices unchecked and no real progress can be achieved.

It's a very worthwhile and necessary campaign subject.

The real kicker is that this kind of discrimination has been illegal in the state of California for two years, and in the municipality of San Francisco for about 20 years. The culture however hasn't caught up with the law, so hiring managers are just as bigoted as ever, they just don't specifically tell you in writing that transsexuals need not apply, although the more brazen may do so verbally because they rightly figure that you won't be able to prove anything.

As an aside, I'll never forget an interview at Macy's, which was conducted between three of us candidates and the HR manager. The interview was largely scenario based, and while my answers were not all perfect, I clearly was just as hireable as the other two candidates, if not more so, on the basis of my responses. As a part of the the interview there was this big long spiel about the importance of integrity at Macy's, and there were a few "integrity" scenarios that we had to respond to. At the conclusion of the interview, she took each candidate out into the hall to confer with them privately before they left, but the closeness of the hall meant that the conversations were audible. The other two candidates were offered jobs on the spot while she told me that she wanted to finish the remaining interviews for the day before making a decision. Either way, she said, she would call me in the evening to let me know if she had a position for me or not. The evening came and went and I received no call. I called back the next morning to let her know that I hadn't heard back but that I was still interested in working for her. She then claimed that she never said that she would call me back, that she would only call back those to whom she wanted to offer a job. She then commented that she did not understand why I would have expected a callback "given how [I] presented myself in the interview."

[robertlouis]

I worked in HR all of my professional life and would have had that manager's ass on the sidewalk. OK, so I worked in telecoms and in environments where talent genuinely determined the hiring choice, but to learn that huge corporations have such openly discriminatory policies disgusts me. I remember being told in the 90s - in the UK - not to hire a guy as my head of compensation because he was clearly and unashamedly gay. I refused, hired him, and he was the best hire I ever made, and I took him with me to three other companies over the years.

Just what do companies who have such policies really think they're achieving?

[tsmirandameadows]

I worked in HR all of my professional life and would have had that manager's ass on the sidewalk. OK, so I worked in telecoms and in environments where talent genuinely determined the hiring choice, but to learn that huge corporations have such openly discriminatory policies disgusts me. I remember being told in the 90s - in the UK - not to hire a guy as my head of compensation because he was clearly and unashamedly gay. I refused, hired him, and he was the best hire I ever made, and I took him with me to three other companies over the years.

Just what do companies who have such policies really think they're achieving?

Well she was actually violating company policy in that regard. Hence, the irony of her spiel on "integrity". The point is that law and policy does nothing if the culture is such that people think it's morally acceptable to discriminate in this regard. This woman would have been just as in violation of law and policy if she had told a black girl that negros need not apply, yet she would never think to do so because such behavior is rightly considered toxic. To do the exact same to a transsexual is a-okay in most people's minds however.

[Prospero]

Don't blame Deborah. She did what her DNA told her to do. Most of them are like that.

So one tgirl behaving badly proves that all the others are thieves. Right. Got it. So there's one guy in this forum being a jerk. What does that tell us about the rest?

Well said Trish.... and as for african's remark... well mate, what would your reaction be if someone said that is the way all black people behave, because "it is in their DNA?"

And of course there are "guys here" ho will never see that transexuals can do no wrong quoth Mr TSDVDman... what a dumb ass remark. of course there are bad transsexuals just as there are bad mexicans, albanians, welsh, brits, homosexuals, blacks, Chinese, Eskimos etc etc.... but you do not tar all of any group based on the bad behaviour of one or two. Unless that groups in itself espouses bad behaviour (ie the ku klux klan, the Nazi party, al Queda etc). For someone who is a regular poster on this site, you seem to have a pretty low opinion of the girls.

[kj312]

I disagree with this statement "There's no loving husband, white-picket fence, and two and a half children waiting for us if we plan for the future. " I have taken transgender women seriously and they have done me wrong. There is guys out there you just have to be patient.

[SXFX]

Miranda
I know it means shit from me.....but you sound like a very smart person who has her shit together. It's a shame those employers didn't see it. As a manager of a good sized office finding good help...is not easy...and i don't care if you are trans or blue if you can do your job i'll hire you....unless you are left handed...those people just freak me out
I KID I KID I KID =)