LGBT lost in TRANSlation?

[GroobyKrissy]

Oh yeah... my Fet postings can be acerbic, for sure, but I've rescinded a few of those diatribes upon realizing I was being a dick.


Self-reliant team players are where it's at, I think.

I agree. However, I would put this out there...

Self-reliance doesn't necessarily equal independence.

You can be self-reliant and still help others work towards a common goal of equality and acceptance.

Anyway, good discussion. I've got to run out to a meeting but thanks.

[Ms.Stepford]

Cheers! And trust me, I scare myself with how I sound like Ayn Rand sometimes too...

[LilyRox]

Read what I have read and you DEFINITELY get that there is HATRED towards the CD/TV community by the TS community. It isn't even debatable. It is not posed as "we dislike the general public for not being educated" it is posed as "We hate (and I use that word on purpose) the CD/TV community because THEY make US look bad."

Try this. Get a picture of some old, unattractive lady. Create a profile on Fetlife and call yourself a "CD/TV". Go into a "Ask a Trans Person a Question" on Fetlife. Give your two cents on a serious topic of discussion. See what kind of reaction you get. It will surprise you, the actual hatred that is expressed towards you JUST FOR DARING TO DO THAT.

I disagree with the premise that the struggles and rights for all individuals are not the same. Saying otherwise implies bigotry where there should be none... It implies that you are against a person because of BEHAVIOR, and that should exclude them from the "struggle". This line of reasoning is the exact same line of reasoning that opponents to the LGBT community use, and that is the hypocrisy that exists.

Yeah. I'll admit I am prejudice against drag queens. I don't know why, but I think they're loud, annoying, obnoxious, and not even funny. I don't get the concept of dressing up like a clown and making a mockery of an entire community. They smear their lipstick, they cake their face. It looks ridiculous, and stupid. It could be because I don't drink. Maybe you have to be shit faced to get the humor (if there is any). Personally, I find their humor quite offensive.

As far as CD's go. I'll never understand the fetish of dressing up. I wear panties everyday and don't get a hard on.

[nysprod]

Very educational, this thread...

[sensuelle]

You are incorrect, and here is why.

You are making a distinction between "TS" and "Lesbian, Gay, and Bi". The distinction you see is that LGB is a sexual orientation ONLY. This is a misunderstanding of the terms... it is a VERY fine point, but one that is worth understanding completely because it ultimately strengthens your argument if you understand it, and use it to argue for HUMANITY... not behavior.

Try this. Go up to a person (somewhat educated) who identifies as LGB (and truly is). Tell that person that they are LGB simply because of a sexual orientation, that is, preference (orientation denotes it can be changed - and is therefore ultimately, a preference). There is a GUT reaction that this is incorrect, and most in the community, while maybe not being able to voice it correctly, realize this.

You must realize WHY these terms (LGB) exist. They don't exist for the benefit of those who are (LGB). They exist for the benefit for the people who ARE NOT... because they are labels... FOR PEOPLE... to describe BEHAVIOR. That is what should be at the crux of every argument for equality. Labels are meaningless unless you do, in fact, have some sort of bigotry. What you are arguing against (opposed to LGBT) is BEHAVIOR not humanity. The counter argument should be, "Who cares about behavior (this changes if it is a moral argument - i.e. - religious)? All PEOPLE should be treated equally. Period."

This feeling, promoted by most TS, that LGB is a behavior while TS is a "person" is exactly why the LGB community dislikes the "T". It is a "moral superiority" argument that is self-destructive to pursue.

I have read (literally) thousands of threads, posts, and comments since joining Fetlife (arguably the largest gathering of "academic" TS - and supposedly "most open") about this topic and although there are "pockets" of reason, mostly what you see is bigotry expressed by the TS community... to ANYONE who is not part of it... gay, straight, CD/TV, etc. etc.

First of all i never said that beeing LGBis a behavior that can be changed because i firmly believe that some is a born that way the same way as a transgenderd person is.And i dont feel that i am in any way superior to someone that is lgb i am just saying that it is completly different thing from beeing transgender and i my view a transgender woman that is straight doesnt belong in the catagory but a transgender that indentifies as bi or lesbian does.And for you other point in your other post about that the lgb community does care about T rights have a look at this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Employm...rimination_Act they will drop as like a brik if they dont need us, apperntly it is oke to discrimnate against T who are looking for a job.

[maddygirl]

Maybe my language is off or ignorant of the correct term but how could the fact that a person wants to be the opposite sex as they are born not be as matter of orientation. A born genitally girl, who is a boy living in that body. I could think of better phrase that orientation.

It is interesting times are coming because this the next great civil rights front and it crosses every on societies "lines". These people that the many want deny rights and the same happiness they enjoy in the US are going be shocked to find that this movement will have members from all religions, races and economic classes as well.

Sexual orientation is about who you attracted to...(straight, bisexual, gay)... all of which have nothing to do with being physically male and mentally female. I don't see the correlation.

[BellaBellucci]

As usual, I wholeheartedly agree with the brilliant and insightful Ms. Stepford and think that Krissy is a again being an overly verbose windbag suffering from a severe inferiority complex. As someone who is not TS, it is inappropriate for this person to be speaking on our issues.

Common human decency should never be a gift.

More often than not it's actually cis hetero people who are our best allies, anyway.

Activist groups need to start fighting for equal rights for ALL, as well as for that which is advantageous to their own cause. It's a fatal flaw in civil rights struggles that they don't.

~BB~

[BellaBellucci]

the TG (included here for "popular" understanding of equal terms with "TS") /TS community (generally) has a rampant hatred of and towards the CD/TV community, demonstrating the very (and actual) bigotry that they condemn in others? The hypocrisy is stunning and makes a mockery of their argument for equal treatment.

If you're a CD/TV and you identify as a MALE, that's fine with me. Maybe we just don't like it when they demand that they are transsexual (or worse: women) when in reality, it's not an identity; it's merely a fantasy.

*paints the soles of all her heels red*

I mean, what equal rights do they need? The ability to use the ladies room? Hell, I'm transsexual and even *I* think it's freaky and would rather they use the mens' room.

~BB~

[LilyRox]

Yeah there seems to be 3 main groups of genders: male, female, and the 3rd sex/transgender.

The problem with the word transgender is that everything but transsexuals are actual a gender.

ex) Crossdressers, do it purely as an fetish. Not a state of self being.

Drag queens, do it for entertainment to portray a character.

Transvestites do it purely for cash, etc.

In my opinion transgender isn't a gender at all. Transsexual is.

If it is it would mean crossdresser's live with two genders. Their male gender and their crossdresser gender. It just really doesn't make sense how a fetish gets grouped as a gender.

[broncofan]

I have noticed that some transsexuals believe it's offensive for those who are not transsexuals to discuss any of their issues. It is generally understood that experience does imbue one with special insight, but that shouldn't mean that only an in-group can give an informed opinion. I'm not saying this is a universal attitude, but I have encountered it and my sense is that one doesn't improve their odds of achieving equal treatment by telling others that they couldn't possibly understand their experience without living it.

That said, some deference to those who have encountered issues from a first-person perspective is warranted and I'm not saying I don't understand the attitude. I just find it a bit patronizing from time to time.