LGBT lost in TRANSlation?

[BellaBellucci]

WHAT GAVE YOU THE RIGHT TO BRING MY GENDER IDENTIFICATION INTO THE CONVERSATION AT ALL?

Umm... you did, when you decided that it was OK to label yourself whatever is convenient at any given moment, i.e. in 'marketing.' Which is the real you? The CD in your websites or the TS you claim to be? It's been your intent to keep us guessing and make yourself a victim.

You have outrighted admitted that you vary your stated identity to achieve certain results. You're exactly the kind of person we're talking about on this thread. And then instead of defending it, you blame Remy for bringing it up at all?

You need help.

~BB~

[GroobyKrissy]

Points for trying, Bella!

You are wondrously amusing.

[BellaBellucci]

Points for trying, Bella!

You are wondrously amusing.

Enjoying your manic episode, are you?

It's disappointing that you're still too scared to debate me directly on the merits, so please, continue using Remy as my proxy, even though she isn't.

I'm sure that will help you win friends and influence people.

~BB~

[GroobyKrissy]

There's no fear at all.

Past history has proven, without any doubt, that you cannot reason logically and you will NOT be intellectually honest... about anything. That is why I have chosen not to engage you on this matter.

I have already stated here, if anyone sees merit in what you say, and wants me to address it, quote it to me and I will address them. You can read my response and you're free to go ahead with your dribble.

No fear at all. Thus far, nobody has taken me up on that offer... not sure what that says about your points...

[BellaBellucci]

There's no fear at all.

Past history has proven, without any doubt, that you cannot reason logically and you will NOT be intellectually honest... about anything. That is why I have chosen not to engage you on this matter.

I have already stated here, if anyone sees merit in what you say, and wants me to address it, quote it to me and I will address them. You can read my response and you're free to go ahead with your dribble.

No fear at all. Thus far, nobody has taken me up on that offer... not sure what that says about your points...

Oh, so you make the rules now? Hmm. OK.

Delusions of grandeur? Check.

~BB~

[GroobyKrissy]

Yup. Sweet, right?

[fivekatz]

Well I think people should be free to do whatever they wish as far as their how they conduct their sex lives and because one person transitions with hormones and surgery and another chooses to dress as the opposite sex does not make either person "bad".

I have say that I am surprised at some of venom towards CD/TV. Then again I was surprised to learn how homophobic African-Americans could be but the 2008 election in CA where same sex marriage was made illegal was largely accomplished by the huge church going, African Americans that turned out in record numbers to vote for Obama.

Popular opinion or not I believe that people should be able to act out their identity and sexual desires as the see fit and long as they aren't doing harm to others. And victims of the ignorance of prejudice should IMHO live and let live.

IMO we should all defend the rights of people to be whoever they are whether it i a transitioning person, a total transitioned person, a CD/TV, gay, lesbian or heterosexual. We don't have to make the same choices as others but we should IMHO defend their right to be whatever they want so long as they obey the laws of the land.

There are lots of battles to be fought on this front and there is something fucked up about the idea that a CD/TV wouldn't be able to count on having their back not just TS but all people of goodwill.

[Remy757Photog]

Remy...

The POINT is this.

WHY WAS IT PERTINENT TO THE CONVERSATION AT ALL?

I was curious because you brought it to my attention.

WHAT GAVE YOU THE RIGHT TO BRING MY GENDER IDENTIFICATION INTO THE CONVERSATION AT ALL?

You did, not me. I didn't ask you why you chose to not transition until you openly stated in this thread that you chose not to transition. It never concerned me before.

STATE YOUR PURPOSE FOR BRINGING IT UP.

Just answer (honestly) those two questions and state your response to the statement.

Here is your answer... like it or not. And, yes, after I write this, you can indeed (RIGHTFULLY THIS TIME) accuse me of putting words in your mouth.

You thought you were being clever. You thought if you could get me to admit or prove that I identify as CD/TV, then your arguments would have a more solid foundation. Plain and simple. When I had an actual reason, you had to backtrack out... and you did it poorly. Instead of just apologizing and saying, "Hey, you know what... I could have posed the question better. Sorry." YOU MADE EXCUSES for it. This logically implies that you understood what you had done and had a motive behind it. It wasn't just a, "Nice day, isn't it?" type of question. AT ALL. To say it was is absolutely ludicrous and completely, intellectually dishonest.

I didn't make any excuses, I simply answered your question. Which I have repeatedly done. The problem is, you won't accept any answer except the words you have put in my mouth above. You keep assuming that anything I say except what you type is a lie, instead of just taking me at my word. I suspect this is because of some deep seated issue you have with negative experiences with the TS community.

I stated earlier in the thread well before asking about your transition, that I don't feel TS have a problem with CD/TV themselves, just TS being grouped together by mainstream society viewing CD/TV/TS as all the same thing just different monikers. I have stated multiple times that I have friends that are CD, so why would I pick on anyone that is CD like you keep claiming I am trying to do to you. I have asked TS all manner of questions concerning when they started transition, how old they were, how long on hormones, I've asked girls why they decided to de-transition, every question under the rainbow and you are the only one who has ever responded so vehemently.

This is a trans forum, yet you get upset because someone who knows barely anything about you is asking about trans issues, fair enough. Now I know that anything concerning you and trans issues that affect you directly are off limits. Why would I ask you how nice the day is when I can look outside and see for myself. What I can't do, is get to know anything about Krissy the person, without asking, but again you make it clear that question about you shouldn't be asked even when you, yourself bring up the topic. It's clear that you feel I was taking Bella side, despite my saying (repeatedly) I am not and that you have some anger issues toward her, so I'm just going to bow out now as this is getting no where at all. By the way, I actually did apologize.

[GroobyKrissy]

I was curious because you brought it to my attention.

You did, not me. I didn't ask you why you chose to not transition until you openly stated in this thread that you chose not to transition. It never concerned me before.

So, if it was just PERSONAL curiosity, and had no bearing on your argument... you couldn't have just PM'd me and asked?

Do you see why I say you NEED to watch what you write, AND take responsibility for your comments and the conclusions that people are going to reasonably draw from them?

When you include something like that in a discussion, the REASONABLE conclusion is that you're asking with a motive. The only discernible motive is what I have already stated.

Here is the difference between you and I, Remy:
Fair enough. Thanks for answering directly this time. I accept your explanation, and although I don't agree with the reasons, fine. I won't pick apart the issue anymore on that point.

I would ask in the future, if you have a personal question that has no bearing on your argument, that you ask it privately.

I am willing to give people benefit of the doubt once they've expressed themselves clearly. Do I have the same courtesy? Apparently not.

[GroobyKrissy]

I suspect this is because of some deep seated issue you have with negative experiences with the TS community.

So, you're saying that because you and I have tangled here, that this discussion represents some "deep seated issue" I have with the TS community?

Couldn't I just as easily say, "I suspect this is because of some deep seated issue YOU have with negative experiences with the CD/TV community."

Do you see where this "blame game" leads? It is ultimately pointless.

SHORTENED and, BOLD MINE

I have asked TS all manner of questions concerning when they started transition, how old they were, how long on hormones, I've asked girls why they decided to de-transition, every question under the rainbow and you are the only one who has ever responded so vehemently.

These questions are not even comparative in the least bit here (no wonder I am the only one), and this information is completely non-pertinent...to anything, anyway.

Did you ask me, "When did you start transition?" "How old were you when you started transition?" etc. etc. NO. You questioned my gender identity outright based on assumptions you took from my usage of terms on various profiles, etc. Try doing this to the next model you shoot. Start out your conversation by saying, "I was on this website somewhere and it referenced you as a CD. Why do you think I should be shooting you for a TS site?" See how well that goes over and get back to me once your black eye has healed.

There is no context for the questions you are saying you have asked and thus, cannot be accurately judged whether they were approached, carefully, considerately, and etc. etc. Surely you do not think you had that same approach in THIS instance?

What I can judge is what you did here. I've already stated I won't pick on that point and I won't go back on that except to ask,

So you feel that you share absolutely NO responsibility for my response back to you... at all?

This is a trans forum, yet you get upset because someone who knows barely anything about you is asking about trans issues, fair enough. Now I know that anything concerning you and trans issues that affect you directly are off limits. Why would I ask you how nice the day is when I can look outside and see for myself. What I can't do, is get to know anything about Krissy the person, without asking, but again you make it clear that question about you shouldn't be asked even when you, yourself bring up the topic. It's clear that you feel I was taking Bella side, despite my saying (repeatedly) I am not and that you have some anger issues toward her, so I'm just going to bow out now as this is getting no where at all. By the way, I actually did apologize.

Oh... I didn't know this was a TRANS FORUM... thanks for the info!

Now who is pretending what the other is saying...?

Did I, or did I not answer your question... however crude I thought it was? Does my answering of it not give me the right to question why it was asked in the first place? Something you have not stated plainly until now.

Can you please tell me ONE (just one) question that you have posed that I have not answered? So I'm not sure how you're getting that you can't ask questions about me... I, in fact answered your question(s) even though I thought it was in poor taste. I even stated that I would give you the benefit of the doubt ("No offense taken"), which changed once you wrote a reply.

I have asked you SEVERAL QUESTIONS (plainly stated as you requested) that you have not answered or addressed (I will list them upon request). So who is dodging the questions... you or me?

Where is said apology written in a meaningful way with the full context intact? I mean, I see what, I guess, could be maybe an apology of sorts...surrounded by excuses...

I find it interesting that people can be "so articulate" when making a negative point, but then get so "inarticulate" when it comes to writing a simple apology.